What Happened to Brendan Dassey – After Making a Murderer Update

Brendan Dassey seeking retrial in 2013

“Whatever his personal failings, there are a number of systemic failings that are deeply troubling if you think about them too much.”

In the Netflix documentary Making a Murderer, the flaws of the Manitowoc County judicial system are brought to painful light. Making a Murderer focuses on Steven Avery, who served 18 years in prison for a rape he did not commit, but after exoneration, was convicted of murder. Avery and many others feel as though the conviction was to punish Avery for exposing misbehavior of the Manitowoc County executive and judicial offices. The scope of this misbehavior is most evident in the testimony from Brendan Dassey, which was used to convict Avery. (If you hadn’t finished the documentary yet and were wondering did Brendan Dassey Go to jail now you know)

In an interview on News 3 in Madison Wisconsin, Dean Stang made the statement quoted above. Dean Stang served as Steven Avery’s defense attorney in the 2007 trial in which he was convicted of the murder of Teresa Halbach. Before addressing the inconsistencies and failures which have given credence to claims of Avery and Dassey’s innocence, let’s first look at Dassey’s alleged involvement with Teresa Halbach’s murder.

Brendan Dassey’s Involvement in the Halbach Murder

In 2003, Brendan Dassey was a 14-year-old boy living with his extended family in the small town of Gibson in northern Manitowoc County, Wisconsin. The county is sustained by light manufacturing and energy, though both of those were in decline in 2003. Dassey lived with his mother and brothers Blaine, Bobby, and Bryan on a 40-acre lot law enforcement called “the Avery property.” There were three more residences on the property: Dassey’s grandfather and grandmother Allen and Dolores Avery, their son Steven Avery, and younger son Charles or Chuckie Avery.


Brendan's extended family, with uncle Steven Avery on the right
Brendan’s extended family, with uncle Steven Avery on the right

There are several accounts of Brendan’s presence and involvement in the events surrounding Teresa Halbach’s October 31st disappearance, but for this article there will be a focus on two iterations. The first will be an amalgam of the statements Brendan offered to investigators prior to his criminal trial. The second will be his testimony, supplemented by information presented in Making a Murderer.

Ken Kratz was the special prosecutor on behalf of the State of Wisconsin in both the Steven Avery case and the trial against Brendan Dassey.  In his opening statement for the Dassey trial (starts on page 21,) Kratz introduces Mark Wiegart and Tom Fassbender, the lead investigators for Brendan Dassey’s case. Mark Wiegert was at the time an investigator for the Calumet County Sheriff’s Department, located directly to the west of Manitowoc County. Calumet County had been given control over the investigation to, in the words of Manitowoc County District Attorney Mark Rohrer, “avoid any appearance of conflict,” related to Avery’s previously exonerated conviction for the rape of Penny Beernsten. Tom Fassbender worked for the federal Department of Justice.

After explaining the physical evidence which would appear in the trial, Kratz brings attention to what started as a witness interview with Brendan Dassey, conducted by Wiegert and Fassbender on March 1, 2006.  The conduct of the investigators during this interview would later be a focus of Dassey’s defense, but for now the focus will be on the narrative they tell.

The prosecutor's main investigators, Wiegert & Fassbender took multiple statements from Brendan which led to his conviction
The prosecutor’s main investigators, Wiegert & Fassbender took multiple statements from Brendan which led to his conviction

Police had already interviewed Brendan once about his knowledge about the Halbach murder, but were encouraged to re-examine his statements once his then-13-year-old cousin claimed he told her he saw evidence of Steven Avery’s involvement. At this point, police had found evidence of Teresa Halbach’s bones in his fire pit, and had information that Brendan had seen these bones in a bonfire on October 31st, when Halbach went missing.

According to the information built from Brendan’s statement-turned-confession, Brendan came home from school and saw there was a letter in his mailbox for his uncle, Steven. Brendan walked to Avery’s trailer, and heard screams from inside Avery’s trailer. Brendan knocked on Avery’s door, and Avery led him to his bedroom, where Teresa Halbach was tied to his bed. Avery successfully encouraged Brendan to rape Halbach.

Afterward, Avery stabbed Halbach in the stomach, and handed the knife to Brendan. Brendan then cut the woman’s throat, and the uncle and nephew took her, still alive, to the garage, adjacent to the trailer. There, they cut her hair and shot her ten times, finally killing her. After loading her into the back of her own SUV, Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey discussed what to do with her body. They decided to burn it, as well as her clothes, camera, and cell phone, putting them in an ongoing fire in Avery’s backyard.

Then, the two drove Halbach’s car to a nearby part of the Avery property, where Steven removed the license plates and opened the hood, disconnecting the battery. Going back to the house, Brendan and his uncle then cleaned the garage, yard, and trailer of any evidence of their crimes, successfully removing all DNA evidence. Next, Avery placed the key to Halbach’s car in his bedroom.

This testimony changed the nature of both the Dassey and Avery cases. After Brendan Dassey’s March 1 confession, police sought new warrants for the Avery property, and almost immediately found previously-unseen evidence corroborating Brendan’s statements. This quick transition from witness to suspect had lasting effects on the rest of his trial, especially the attitude from his defense team.

Brendan Dassey’s Defense 

Len Kachinsky had just made a failed bid for circuit judge before being offered the role of Brendan’s defender. Appointed on March 7, Kachinsky started making statements to the press before ever speaking with Brendan. In a phone call with the Green Bay area NBC affiliate, Kachinsky stated, “We have a 16-year-old who, while morally and legally responsible, was heavily influenced by someone that can only be described as something close to evil incarnate.” This statement is still having an effect on the path of Brendan’s legal battles.

Len Kachinsky took up to 12 hours to meet with press to defend his client before even meeting Brendan
Len Kachinsky took up to 12 hours to meet with press to defend his client before even meeting Brendan

After making it publicly clear how he was approaching the case, Kachinsky retained the services of Michael O’Kelly. Digging around on Google reveals “Cell Tower Mike” O’Kelly had worked as a defense expert before, billing himself as an expert in cellular technologies and “polygraph.” In a 2012 case O’Kelly was involved with, O’Kelly is kicked off the defense team after he “took it upon himself to assume a more active investigative role.”

Initially, O’Kelly was hired by Kachinsky to administer a polygraph to Brendan Dassey. Dassey had asked Kachinsky for the lie detector test, objecting to the guilt implied by his March 1 statements. The results of this test were reported as inconclusive during the Dassey trial, and so were not admitted as evidence. However, with this in, O’Kelly’s role within the case began to grow, as it had earlier cases.

In an e-mail sent on April 27, 2006 where O’Kelly alluded to an interest in finding information which would prove Brendan’s confession, he also stated he thought Brendan would be the primary witness against Steven Avery. As dialog highlighted in episode 4 of Making a Murderer, the attitude of Brendan’s defense was that he should try to play into his perceived guilt in order to reduce his own culpability.

On May 9th, O’Kelly sent e-mail to Kachinksy about an upcoming meeting he wanted with Brendan. O’Kelly stated that Brendan should be kept alone, so he is ready to “trust” O’Kelly, and to bring Brendan to “see reality from [the defense’s] perspective.”

On May 12, 2006, Michael O’Kelly interviewed Brendan Dassey on behalf of Len Kachinsky. After laying out photographs of the crime scene and other artifacts, including a printout of Dassey’s polygraph results (later reported as inconclusive by Kachinsky.) O’Kelly tells Dassey, however, that the results show with 98% certainty that Dassey was lying during his earlier polygraph.

Saying you are sorry for an action may be perceived in court as admission
Saying you are sorry for an action may be perceived in court as admission

O’Kelly provided Dassey with a form, asking him, “Are you sorry for what you did?” From there, O’Kelly conducted an extensive interview with Dassey, ultimately getting Brendan to write a detailed confession. O’Kelly even instructed Dassey to draw pictures of things like Halbach tied to Avery’s bed.

Immediately after the interview ends, O’Kelly called Kachinsky, saying that it went very well, and asking if he should set an appointment with the DOJ’s investigator, Tom Fassbender. O’Kelly made the appointment, and the next morning, Fassbender and Wiegert interrogate Brendan. Their intention was to clear up previous inconsistencies, and to ensure his confession doesn’t contradict the physical evidence acquired after the search authorized by the warrants gotten after Brendan’s first confession.

Brendan Dassey’s May 13 statements to the investigators, made without Kachinsky’s presence, did little to bolster the prosecutor’s case. Brendan’s answers were as inconsistent and contradictory as they had been on March 1. By then, Brendan’s mother Barb had become suspicious of her son’s defenders. In her eyes, it seemed as though they were pushing him to admit he was guilty, to help the case against Steven Avery, regardless of his actual guilt.

Initially, a motion to remove Kachinsky as Brendan’s council was denied. However after learning that his May 13 statements were made without the Kachinsky’s presence, the judge removed Kachinsky from the trial on August 26, 2006.

The trial began in November of 2006, with Dassey ultimately being represented by Ray Edelstein and Mark Fremgen.

Brendan Dassey’s First Trial & Retrial Hearings

Making a Murderer covers the actual trial of Brendan Dassey pretty thoroughly. The prosecution’s case rested on the physical evidence discovered after the warrants issued in response to Brendan’s March 1 statements, while the defense argued that his statements were inconsistent and coerced from him.

Brendan Dassey after being sentenced to life in prison
Brendan Dassey after being sentenced to life in prison

On April 25, 2007, after deliberating for over four hours, a jury found Brendan Dassey guilty of all alleged charges: intentional homicide, mutilating a corpse, and second degree sexual assault. His conviction greatly helped the prosecution’s case against Steven Avery, who had not yet had his trial. Brendan was sentenced to life in prison, with parole eligibility starting in 2048.

On January 15, 2010, a hearing to consider a retrial for Brendan Dassey started, led by Steven Drizin. A driving force of the request was the belief that Dassey’s council during his first trial was ineffective. Allegations of Kachinsky having political motivations made an early appearance in these hearings, as well as questions about the methods used by Wiegert and Fassbender. Even the efforts of Fremgen and Edelstein were brought into question. Every person meant to defend Brendan seemed to operate from a basis of presuming guilt and working to prove his innocence.

Brendan Dassey handwrote a letter to his judge prior to submitting a formal appeal
Brendan Dassey handwrote a letter to his judge prior to submitting a formal appeal

On December 16, 2010, after asking for an extension to decide, Judge Fox, who had presided over Brendan’s trial, denied the motion for a retrial, claiming that the defense was adequately effective and no evidence of misconduct would have affected the outcome of the trial.

Three years later, Brendan filed for another appeal, under a similar reasoning as the first retrial, that his counsel was ineffective, with the additional appeal that his confession was involuntary. This drew a correlation between the defense used in the original trial and this 2013 appeal, helping bolster the legitimacy of Brendan’s claim. However, this appeal was also denied.

A third appeal was filed in November of 2014, with Laura Nirider with Bluhm Legal Clinic of Northwestern University School of Law speaking to the press about the appeal. This appeal is a writ of habeas corpus, which is used to ask a federal court to examine if a person’s imprisonment or detention was lawful.

Brendan Dassey Now in 2018 – Recent Updates

One of the biggest questions on social media right now happens to be “Is Brendan Dassey still in Jail?” As of January 3, 2016 he currently is still in jail and there is no updated information on his appeal. A habeas petition could have several results. If not outright rejected, Brendan Dassey may receive another trial, or may even be set free. It’s worth noting that very few habeas petitions are granted.

As it stands, Brendan will continue to serve his life sentence, with parole opportunities beginning in 2048.

What Happens if Brendan Dassey is Innocent?

Bringing this all back to the alleged murder of Teresa Halbach by Steven Avery, what would happen if Brendan Dassey’s petition is granted and his statements found to be coercive, or his initial detention unconstitutional?
A lot of the physical evidence which helped form the bulk of the case against Avery was found after warrants were issued in response to Brendan’s March 1, 2006 statement-turned-confession. If his statement is found to be coerced, or the questioning to have been illegal, it would make the evidence which was used to convict both Avery and Dassey illegally obtained. While this would make it inadmissible in Brendan’s trial, it would still be valid evidence in Avery’s case. While the exclusionary rule protects Brendan from evidence gained in violation of his rights, it does not apply to third parties (as affirmed in cases like United States v. Jeffers.)

Therefore, even if Dassey were fully exonerated, it would not affect Steven Avery. Avery, who has used all of his appeals, must serve his sentence, unless he can demonstrate a separate reason for appeal.


SHARE
Previous articleAdult Acne Questions & Answers
Next articleWhat Happened To Cliven Bundy – 2018 Update & News
Morgan Sennhauser
Morgan Sennhauser is a thoroughbred millennial, who has focused on working against censorship and surveillance in Africa and the Middle East. Now living in North Carolina, Morgan spends his time advocating for minority groups in impoverished regions, and writing about related topics.

270 COMMENTS

  1. This exposes the sheriff. Just like The District attorney said for decades I was not sexually assualting these women even his text were exposed . The local media lied and protected Kratz the brotherhood for decades until a national media exposed the text of Kratz . It took a good looking girl beat to a pulp to get Kratz removed and to stop his cimies. The double standards of the just us system also protected Kratz once he admitted his crimes. they did not charge kratz with these sexual assaults because we are not a lynch mob. The evidence shows they a lynch mob only against the people and protect each other trained as liars.
    The sheriff does not say why his officers who were told to stay away found ALL the evidence, Or the same officers were involved in Averys framing several times before.
    It is obvious Wisconsin lawless enforcement is responsable for more violent crimes than the people. The evidence shows Officer Lenk,Colbern and Kratz are the ones with motive. Kratz has the sexual assault history and they are all violent as theiir civil records show. All three have mile long civil rcords because it is the only form of justice their vicims get because of their above all laws status
    Remember you only had 36 million reasons to frame an innocent She

  2. “In 2003, Brendan Dassey was a 16-year-old boy living with his extended family in the small town of Gibson in northern Manitowoc County, Wisconsin.” Brendan Dassey was 16 in 2005 not 2003

    • You’re right, and I fixed that part of the article (also realized I listed Kayla Avery’s age incorrectly.)

    • I saw that misprint also. His testimony indicates that he was 16 years old in 2005. This is really a non-sequitur. And his age, at the time of the crime, has never been in question. He was a sophomore in 2005 and was 16 years old.

  3. Am I the only one who thinks Brendan Dassey committed the murder? I feel like Steven tried helping him get rid of the evidence but Brendan committed the crime and is playing stupid to cover it up. That’s why he seems so unsure of himself and keeps changing stories to put all the blame on Steven Avery to save his own ###. Reason Steven Avery won’t say anything? Because he was involved and knew there wasn’t sufficient evidence against him which is why he went on trial. However, if both of them came out with the truth, there wouldn’t be even a slight chance that either one would NOT go to prison. Dassey is a dumb little kid who didn’t know any better and is hoping that if he just keeps his mouth shut, they’ll excuse him and let him go. Yes, the officers might be framing Avery even though they probably know who the real criminal is, but it’s easier to throw him in jail than the kid because that also saves their reputation. They almost got away with it before but this is a great way to take their revenge on Avery for tainting their reputation regardless of Avery’s innocence or not. They all have different motives and the focus not on the truth, but rather the conviction of a specific person that’s been eyed for the last few decades.

    • Brandan likely helped, but it was Steven who had the obsession with Halbach. Was also Stevens rifle that fired the bullets.

      • OOKAAAY (hits chest repeatedly with limp arm)

        Sorry not completely politically correct of me but completely moronic of you

      • if he did where’s the blood? how did her remains get to three different locations? How did they do all that and not leave any DNA of Teresa’s behind? Why did she call Steven back and sound cheerful and encouraging him to call her back? How is it that Steve’s DNA is on the her key and not hers? How is it that she was bludgeoned beyond anything and the only blood in the vehicle is a swipe of blood in the back of the car? come on answer me

    • Yes. If you know anything about interrogations, adolescents and mental impairment, you would understand that he is innocent. So, yes, you’re probably one of very few who have researched the case.

      • thank you! I have a mentally impaired brother and a mom who taught LD kids. it was so disheartening watching those interviews. People don’t realize there is a massive difference between an LD kid and the general public. It actually really easy to manipulate and intimidate them into lying. Usually they have a strong desire to gain approval and “do well” especially with authority figures. Its also hard, because a lot of them have issues with communication, comprehension, and recalling things like facts and memories. They don’t want to appear stupid so they would rather just pretend they know what being said rather than admit they are confused. Somethings they don’t even know enough to recognize the are confused. They aren’t stupid, but they are very much like young children when it comes to processing information and are VERY suggestible. I can’t even imagine what my brother or one of the other kids (with similar iq range) could be talked into confessing after 3-4 hrs. 🙁

    • Unfortunately your not the only one who thinks this way. Since a lot of people find it easy to convict someone if they are poor and or uneducated. Your whole reasoning is that he is playing dumb? Really did you even watch the documentary making a murderer? When his mother asked him what is going on and why he is in jail, he answered by saying he wanted to watch wrestle-mania. Like really? what intelligent person or even of average intellect would talk about wrestle-mania to his mother when they were just charged with murder and rape? He did this while he was in jail. This shows he cold not even comprehend the situation he was in. In another instance when he spoke with his mother and she questioned him if he did it or not, he starts talking about how he saw on TV that some girl was killed by an alligator. Why would he be playing dumb with his mother? His IQ is 74 which is borderline mentally deficient. Also it was stated that he was taking special ed classes in high school. So your telling me he just played dumb in high-school too? Too pull that off he would have to be an A-list actor with an incredibly high level of intellect. Honestly get a grip, Did we watch the same documentary?

      • There were quite a few instances in the film that showed Dassey was not faking his intellectual/comprehensive abilities. In one scene neither he or his mother knew the definition of “consistent”. This kid went through the whole proceeding without even having a sufficient understanding of what was going on. I think Dassey’s conviction is just wrong on so many levels.

        • that was so sad! The family as a whole isn’t honestly competent enough to truly grasp everything thats happening, let alone that poor child!

          • Exactly what I was going to say Osh. He asked her what inconsistent meant and she had no idea. The entire family as a whole are not bright enough to play dumb together

    • Did you actually watch the series? Did you really think 2 people with an IQ of 70 understand how to destroy DNA evidence when they can’t even comprehend basic English grammar? Maybe your IQ is lower then.

    • Are you out of your mind lol? I don’t think you watched the same show as me or thousands if not hundreds of thousand others did. These two people don’t have the intelligence to pull off something like this. There would be microscopic blood evidence in the garage and in the trailer that would have been found. Yet the only blood that was found was small amounts of Stevens.. There where 5 days after the kidnapping of Teresa for them to have completely dismantle, smash and crush the RAV4, but it was poorly hidden with a few branches and a car hood and was found 15/20 minutes after the search party entered the 40 acre car junk lot? Someone other than these two did this, drove the car there and dumped it all on that property. Evidence was planted. Karma will get the real killers and lairs just like it got the DA with that sexting scandal.

      • Why don’t you draw this and draw that why dont you write this and write that..because that never happened. Well if you don’t i can’t help you.

    • For God’s sake, whatever you do in life PLEASE do not serve on jury where someone’s life is in your hands,

  4. This documentary was VERY disturbing…i couldnt sleep or get it out of my head for days after watching. To see what they did to brendan with the IQ he had was flat out discusting. I feel that it is crystal clear how currupt the police were and with brendan being such a slower teen i dont feel he was even smart enough to think of going to the police to confess in the first place i think he was threatned or coerced to go to the police with his statements. I feel the brother ..bobby …the ex boyfriend…and the victims brother are all extremely suspicious why werent they treated as suspects for questioning as well?? This is a horrible portrait of the justice system the officers of the law and lawyers.. all abusing their power and ruining peoples lives. Im horribly saddened for these families and those of the victim.something has to be done about these issues.

    • It was the ex-boyfriend…that dude was so wishy washy…but I all so think the two cops played a major role in the conviction. But the prosecution played it right with the fear mongering in the media. They proved what they needed to prove before they ever stepped in to court. Which is very sad… The system is so flawed it’s ridiculous

      • Yeah isn’t it amazing that Teresa’s brother and the ex boyfriend figured out her password to listen to her messages but couldn’t remember it when questioned by the defense? They were possibly the only ones who could have erased some messages, why?

    • just imagine EVERY ONE OF THE PERVERT COPS HAVE DONE THIS AND continue to do this in every case they touch. thousands innocent people in jail from one county alone. There iis no oversite as this documentary shows. they are all lawless with the support of the law. they raped generations of our youth

    • I have only watched the first few episodes so I have not seen all the information presented. But, I have to say I have been VERY appalled and disturbed with the way the interview of Brendan Dassey and how his own attorneys investigator deals with him when trying to get him to sign a form saying he is sorry. I have actually had to stop watching for awhile it bothered me so much.
      I have worked for years with mentally disabled and my daughter is borderline on her IQ. I have first hand knowledge of how easy it is to get someone with low IQ to say what you want. All you have to do is ask leading questions. You will eventually get the answer you want. If I wanted to influence some of the clients I work with to say see a movie I wanted to see instead of one they would enjoy, for example, i could easily do it. I don’t of course but i could easily do it. So if I could manipulate someone with a low IQ on something as small as that how easy would it be to do it on something bigger?? I see people doing this when they don’t even realize they are leading them to get the answer they want and I point out what they are doing. It is so easy to do.

      I am equally disturbed that all the focus is on Steven Avery and not much about what was done to Brendan Dassey.

      As I said I am only a few episodes in and I find what the police did to put Stephen Avery in jail the first time very wrong. But, I can see why he was looked at the second time being the last person to see her alive. I don’t know if he did it or not. I don’t have the full picture yet. And unless there is some big revelation on the case against Brendan Dassey I don’t believe for a minute he did anything seeing what I do from the interrogation with what I know of people with low IQ. I find it very disturbing.

  5. I have a PhD in chemistry and the EDTA baloney did not fly with me..there are a number of ways to detect components in blood- some more accurate and sensitive than others. The science here does not add up and is seriously flawed.

    • Can you elaborate? I’m not even sure if you are saying that the defense’s argument was baloney, the prosecution expert’s testimony was baloney, or that the failure of the FBI to provide such a test to the defense was baloney.

      • I think the good Doctor is saying that the expert was full of crap she contaminated the sample maybe not on purpose but why when the defense asked if they could have someone there witnessing the test being done they were denied BUT, she conveniently had trained two people while the test was being and the test was contaminated and it was all used up so the defense couldn’t do a retest by the lab they chose oh and she was suppose to say the test was inconclusive because it was contaminated just a bunch of horse hockey

  6. What troubles me is that Ken Kratz says in his closing arguments against Steven Avery is that “one man, and one man alone commited the murder”.
    If he truly believed that, why was he leading the case against Brendan Dassey, whom there were no technical evidence against being involved except his “testimony” which later got excluded from Avery’s case for being inconcistent..? And in his opening statement says that Brendan had help. wat
    He contradicts himself, wins cases and gets honored by it.
    I’m not here to say anyone’s corrupt, but blimey, nothing here added up.

    Last note; Any evidence that pointed towards Avery were all questioned with evidence proving the opposite. The key was mentioned alot, and the key ONLY had Avery’s DNA on it. How is that possible? Why not Teresa Halbach’s DNA, whom the key belonged to? Why would he save the key in his house and not leave it with the car or burn it with the body?
    Oh, and Kratz’ statement of the murder not being commited in the house (even though Brendan said so) and says it happens in the garage. No bloodtrace, no trace of cleaning products, only Steven’s DNA. Oh, and Kratz prepared his offence against Brendan with the murder happening inside the house.

    How the f the jury can find anyone guilty when no har evidence (that’s not being questioned and approved under suspicious circumstances) pointing towards him doing anything is beyond me. Innocent untill proven guilty? Doesnt’ seem like it. He was guilty before even being a suspect.

    • jurors are coming forward and saying they feared for their lives and that they traded verdicts to send a message to the Appel? courts

      • you will not find a honest judge or court in Wisconsin, It is a mafia of perverts.
        Websters dictionary explains our justice system with one word PERVERT. To change what is norm for personal , political or religious reasons is an act of perversion. You can not show me one member of the Wisconsin DOJ or one member from the FBI special agent to a federal judge that is not a full blown PERVERT. TRUTH HONOR JUSTICE have no place in a court in America.
        Even the FBI agent falsified evidence as Averys witness exposed

        • I wonder exactly who is paying off Fed Agents or who is in bed with them because I don’t believe they ran the tests. I don’t believe that they didn’t find the EDH or whatever its called. Blood that old and it still is liquid but doesn’t have any sort of chemical to keep it from clotting or drying out? C’mon-I’m no scientist or doctor but I graduated high school-I took life sciences and I know blood after so long eventually clots and dries unless there is something or it is stored to keep its liquid form.

          • FBI FRAUD DR MARC LE BEAU website says he traveled America for more than a decade testifying in cases. I must ask if he ever told the truth or knows how to test. I wonder how many thousands of innocent honest good people he has harmed for his personal gain and helping state doj regimes harm the masses. I would if he would know the truth if it bit him
            He is a full blown pervert

          • Not to mention Judge Patrick Willis. What a loser!!! How on earth could he allow this stupid evidence to be presented in his kangaroo courtroom? He was supposed to insure a fair trial and all he did was make certain that the defendant was found guilty no matter what. I hope someone finds something to charge him with criminally so he can spend some time locked in a cage.

          • “Liars Club.” These
            are professional perjurers who travel around the country testifying for DOJ
            prosecutors. The Liars Club includes FBI Chemist, to Special Agents. Their
            exper­tise at fabricating testimony to use before grand juries and during trial
            is their greatest value.

            FBI Dr Marc LE Beau has been doing this since 1994 as his
            website states. As in the Steven Avery
            Case he used JUNK Science not legally allowed.
            False forensic. Marc Loblow also testified
            that he did do a legitimate test that does not exist. He also guessed several
            times. Professionals do not guess. There is no guessing in a murder trial.

            Dr Marc Le Beau has been accused of and exposed for his fake
            forensic many times in many cases more
            often than not. Marc has thousands of
            innocent people in all 50 states because of his lies on the stand with fake
            forensic. This is why President Obama
            must step in and stop his injustices.

            Watch him squirm and lie in the Steven Avery trail. Every case Child predator Dr Marc Le Bea
            has touch must be reopen. These people need a honest day in court.
            Every time Dr Marc Le Beau speaks in case it is a crime schene. Just imagine this Trained FBI Child
            Predator Dr Marc Le Beau has trained
            over 10,000 officers in America as per
            his website. America must have 10,000 trained LIARS.

            No wonder a honest person never stands a chance.

      • It completely makes sense that they were. How else could a jury decide that these two men were guilty of this crime? It just goes to show how powerful our government is and the reach they have in executing that power.

  7. I’m sorry, I just have to say it- there was no DNA, found ANYWHERE! How is it possible that Brendan and Steven were able to clean up every drop of blood, hair, saliva, etc. from such a violent assault and murder? Come on!

    • Where is the evidence ? the cops found no DNA on Averys land nothing … this is bull. I believe Brendan is protecting his brother (Bobby) who followed her raped and killed her, put her in the back of the car and burnt her at the Avery fire pits; then framed Steve. Bobby then told Brendan to confess and that nothing would happen to him b/c he’s stupid, Steven would go down and he would be set free.

        • I agree with you Jared. That is a strong possibility. I just watched this whole show this weekend. The killer of Theresa knew her, she knew him, (just like in Silence of the Lambs, Frederica knew Buffalo Bill)…no way with Brenden’s intellect he mounted that woman in Avery’s house! Avery was framed, Brenden was coerced…..the whole thing’s a crock!

          • Someone had to have been following her that day to know where she was going. They saw a big salvage yard and knew the perfect place to discard what was left of her body and her vehicle. They also probably burned her body as well as killed her somewhere else. It wouldn’t surprise me if the ex boyfriend did it since HE knew how to access her phone records? The other theory? The one brother in law or the man who ended up in prison for committing the rape that Steven was blamed for but most likely-it was the ex boyfriend.

          • Hmm, the ex boyfriend makes sense too since the people who found her vehicle were part of his search party and basically walked right up to it. They found her car within 10 minutes on a 40 acre lot with hundreds of cars. Someone tipped them off as to where the car was on the lot.

            I don’t think it was George Allen because he was in prison at the time of the murder.

          • and the person who found the car was the only one with a camera shouldn’t everyone in the search team have a camera!!! There are too many red flags, the missing voicemails even the testimony of the Teresa’s colleague with the numerous phone calls!!! its just so unfortunate that the justice system is a failure!!

          • wonder what the connection is between Halbach’s brother and the aunt that “found” the Rav. Think about that….

          • I was thinking the ex-boyfriend too. That woman who found the car was ‘led’ there by ‘The Almighty’ – ????? WOW.

            I couldn’t help thinking while watching 10 hours of this documentary that something like that could happen to any of us. Scary.

        • Yup…I thought that right after I watched the episode where he talks ab
          out being in mourning…..when she’s only been missing for 2 or 3 days!!! I think the cops played him off to kill her, and possibly her ex boyfriend too.

        • Oh my God! It’s all so clear now! Bobby Dassey, Teresa’s own brother, Brendan’s stepfather and Teresa’s ex-boyfriend were all in a secret “We Hate Steven Avery” cult and Teresa was their first sacrifice. They murdered Teresa and whatever evidence they didn’t plant was compensated for when the police showed up and finished the job so they could get out of a lawsuit. It’s so logical! You folks are so incredibly smart!!!

      • this is exactly what I think!! It was his brother bobby and his now step dad mark i believe is his name. They alibied each other. He was either in on it or at least helped frame steve.
        there’s 3 burn locations. why would there be 3 burn locations, one miles away?? and her blood in her car when all steve would need to do is drag her out back?
        and don’t even get me started on the lack of her dna on anything in Stevens house or garage. With all that clutter. forget it . impossible to get every speck of TH dna but leave your own, your family’s and deer?!?!?!

      • The Brother had opportunity and lied under oath about seeing her walk back to Stevens trailer. He also alibied with the other guy and conveniently mentioned the other guy would know an exact time – his reasoning was he might have looked at his watch. The Women not involved gave the correct time frame which was totally off from what Brendan’s Brother said. He also came up with the story that a third party heard Steven say something about what he was going to do with the body on Nov 3 when the conversation that was not the same actually happened on Nov 10. It was almost as if he wanted his Uncle to go to Prison for her murder. Why lie under oath and damage your Uncles Innocence even further? Just another reason the ‘Sheriffs Department had good reason to follow up and ask questions and not tunnel vision the same man they accused of rape when he was innocent.

    • It makes no sense. They supposedly cleaned up every drop of DNA evidence but left the car a bloody mess and a key in plain sight? Makes no sense.

    • Why is it no one thought to look at the ex boyfriend who apparently was still able to check his ex girl’s phone-I mean, stalker much? How come they are not looking at how there is a hypodermic needle hole in what was supposed to have been a sealed container for a vial of blood? There’s something foul in Milwakee and you know what each American should do-we should boycott Milwakee until they do right.

      • So very true. The ex-boyfriend and the brother’s stories regarding the voicemail password just didn’t add up, at all. The fact that voicemails were deleted from Theresa’s phone just shows that someone was up to no good. I mean, they didn’t even interrogate either one of them, or Theresa’s roommate- not even an interview, nothing! It also seems as though nobody even bothered to take a look at her cell phone records to see the incoming/outgoing calls made the day she was on the Avery property! It’s just insane, really.

        • What also bothers me is that the phone records Jodi had were never brought up. She said that she called and spoke with Avery during the supposed murder. She said that he seemed calm and even-toned and didn’t hear screaming or anything in the background.

          • Right, because Avery couldn’t have killed Teresa before Jodi called. So true–he must be completely innocent.

          • Hi Joseph, Just want to asked, have you ever been arrested or passed through a broken system and do you forget that sometimes things are not as they appear to be? I mean I am any means an expert but many people including Avery have been wrongfully convicted. Police officers are not always all their cracked up to be trust me I know because I have been arrested and convicted. Yes, i committed some crimes and by God I paid for all of them but i also got charged twice for crimes I didn’t commit because even though my MO(method of operation) the officers and the DA felt that I simply upgraded, sort of speak to more vicious and serious crimes. I served three years for them crimes because they ran concurrent. However, if not for the judges compassion and he knowing me I would have served 12 long years. Do not get me wrong, I am not sure what to believe, whether they are guilty or innocent but what i do believe and know is that these two were railroaded both in the investigation and at their trials. Now think of this, lets just say that one of your children does something as unspeakable as what happen to this beautiful young lady to someone, would you not try to intervene to ensure that your child is treated fairly. As a human being and butt a parent i would hope you would because i sure will. That is not to say that I am against they paying for their consequences but I would still hope that they are allotted the benefit of the doubt and then a fair consequence.

          • Thank you for sharing. That was brave of you. I hope others will follow your lead and stand up for what is right.

        • Yes, so insane. The police totally should’ve been looking at everyone who’s blood wasn’t in Teresa’s jeep, who didn’t see Teresa last, who didn’t have Teresa’s burnt bones on his property, her keys in his bedroom, and a bullet with her DNA on it in his garage. Man, those police were really barking up the wrong tree on this one!

          • Were we watching the same documentary? The keys that were supposedly looked over 7 times by investigators and just miraculously fell from the sky the 8th time the cops went in? The same keys that didn’t even have any of Theresa’s DNA on them? And how do we know that Avery was the last person to see her alive? Point of the story, this documentary did not support the idea that Avery and Dassey killed Theresa- there simply was not enough evidence and a thorough investigation was not conducted, period.

          • Not only were watching the same documentary, but I actually went and did my own research so that I wouldn’t be biased in favor of the defense. It’s amazing what some perspective can gain you.

          • I totally hear you, however, I was basing my comments SOLELY on this documentary. I am completely aware of the fact that this documentary was created by individuals who believe(d) that Avery and Dassey did not kill Theresa. Basing my opinion solely on the information provided in the documentary, I believe there was not enough evidence to convict either Avery or Dassey for the murder of Theresa. I also believe, based solely on the documentary, that a thorough investigation was not conducted, and individuals that should have been interrogated were not. I am by no means saying that I am not interested in hearing the other side of this case, because I am, all I am saying is that the documentary did not prove these 2 men guilty beyond a reasonable doubt- period.

          • I tried replying with the link to a helpful website and now the post is pending. The site is Steven Avery Case dot com. It’s a tremendous resource if you’d like a little more perspective.

          • If the trial transcripts on the site have not been altered, I would agree those are a good source of information. The editorial pieces, like “Wrongful 1985 Conviction,” are overtly biased and intentionally leave out factual elements to distort the readers perception of the true events. The writer should be ashamed. You should be ashamed.

            The MaM filmmakers did nothing like that. They made editorial decisions in order to condense 200+ hours of trial video into a 10-hour documentary. They also gave all sides the opportunity to be involved and or voice their opinions. Kratz refused and now he’s crying to his buddies, like Nancy Grace, how unfair it is that the series doesn’t show all the State’s “evidence” – meaning the things ruled as irrelevant and/or inadmissible by the court. Boo hoo!

          • I just re-read the piece on “Wrongful 1985 Conviction”. I don’t see any mention of the sketch but it could be elsewhere on the site. But the police in 1985 had nothing to do with the 2005 investigation. I do agree it should be mentioned in that particular article, however. Not sure why I should be ashamed of myself but whatever.

            The Mam filmmakers demonstrated a very clear bias that went well beyond their depiction of the trial. I could go into extreme detail but I can tell you don’t want to hear it.

          • it was the key piece of evidence and they were dispositioned about it for Steven’s lawsuit.

          • I think you mean “deposed” and Lenk/Colborn were deposed as “witnesses”, not accomplices. Their testimony was helping Avery.

          • True, it was their testimony during the depos that implicated them in hiding exculpatory evidence from Avery’s defense.

          • Saying the Police in 1985 had nothing to do with the 2005 investigation is garbage. Was it not the supposedly same Police force who of course supposedly backed away from the latest Avery investigation that found the key conveniently on the floor after the main police force had 6 previous visits and found nothing.

          • After reading the rest of prosecutorial “advocacy” articles, I’ve learned they are all unabashedly biased. Plus, I’ve become acquainted with the redditor, who owns the site. He’s an jerk.

          • I just spent hours looking through the link you posted and honestly it only reinforces his innocence!

          • There’s no way you read thousands pages of trial transcripts in two days. That’s what you should “research.” Not TMZ an Nancy disGrace.

          • I’ve read summary reports of the whole trial and if/when people ask a relevant question I refer to the trial transcript. Still waiting for those same people to start demonstrating some logic, though.

          • Joseph- it’s amazing what some attention can serve you.

            Watch the docuseries again, and post your sources, then what your perspective won’t be as corrupt as the Manutowak Justice System.

          • My source is the actual trial transcripts, actual interviews, and actual documents from the case. Apparently, your source is the media.

          • They only showed the defense side and what they wanted us to see for the prosecution side. Brendan in my opinion is not guilty but Steve Avery is guilty!

          • It was one key, a spare key, that was found. Her actual key chain, with her car, house, and studio keys, was never found. This fact supports the “planting” argument because both co-worker testimony and photographs show Teresa clearly used a key chain with multiple keys.

          • Avery was questioned twice and had his house searched BEFORE the car was found. The cops were looking to arrest Avery BEFORE they found any blood. Yet, NO ONE close to her was asked for an alibi?

            Read the trial transcripts before claiming to know the “facts.”

          • I read about half of the trial transcript. He was the last person to see her alive and he had a violent past–I don’t blame them if they considered him a suspect right off the bat. If you knew someone who went missing and heard they were last seen at a convicted felon’s house, you would be suspicious off the bat as well.

          • True, if I was a cop, I would suspect the guy who was recently exonerated and suing the county for $36M.

          • There is “how things are in magical universe” and “how things are in the real world”. In the real world, if someone who disappeared was last seen on the property of a felon who was convicted of cat murder and convicted of assault at gunpoint, and who was alleged to have sexually assaulted an underage relative, you cancel that felon out as a suspect. It’s common sense, not tunnel vision.

          • Seriously? You’re one of the cat people. “Assault at gunpoint?” I assume you mean his cousin, Sandy Morris, who was spreading vicious, nasty rumors about Avery and his wife. I assume you’re referring to the “assault” in which Sandy Morris recanted or denied some of the details in her 2003 deposition. The same “assault at gunpoint” in which the actual gun was not loaded.

            “Sexually assaulted an underage relative?” You’ve got the wrong Avery. Based on the information I’ve read, that allegation is attributed to Chuck and/or Earl. If you look at the reports, they both received literally a couple of weeks in jail and probation for molestation of a minor, sexual assault of a spouse and some other domestic issues.

            The fact that law enforcement would immediately focus on Steve due to his criminal history is more reason to doubt he did this crime. Makes no sense.

          • If you think “I’ve got the wrong Avery” in regards to those allegations you just aren’t reading up on this story.

          • Any smart cop will choose a person like that to target. As in his first trial which the cat burner, gun wild Avery was convicted guilty yet proven innocent 18 years later. He was never what the media spent 18 years thinking of him as… Ever. He was a young kid once who was learning how to be.. You never make a childish stupid mistake?

            Tunnel vision. It’s what all the county had because it’s all they could have. Then the way corruption played out really made it unfavorable for Stevens name.

            Officer Holborn called in the plates 2 days before it was officially discovered. Yes, that’s right, the officer who was part of the team getting sued for locking up an innocent man the first time, CALLED IN THE CAR AND SAID NOTHING ABOUT IT.

            He left it there for 2 days and only gave directions to searchers where to look so they would find it.

            Tell me please where in your non tunnel vision transcripts does it point out an explanation for this?

            For the key being found after intensive searches for days?

            Come on wake up Sally.

          • You honestly have yourself confused with someone who knows what they are talking about. You’re regurgitating misinformation and half-truths from a documentary and like some total dummy you think you’re making points. Do the research yourself. Everything about you is why the justice system is the way it is as far as limiting speculation. You only want to ingest the “10 hour” version of events and then form an opinion. You obviously don’t know the difference between physical evidence and conjecture. Everything you say is based on a movie. You are the modern example of a spoon-fed zombie who thinks they know things because they watched some movie. Go read up on the actual facts yourself if you want. But to base your information on a documentary is so lazy that it makes the average viewer look far worse than any corrupt cop.

          • And to base your evidence on half of a transcript and summaries?

            Documentaries are by far more interesting and show all the facts of relevance.

            What planet are you from?

          • The planet where literally anybody with more than two brain cells knows that documentaries are usually biased and manipulative. I honestly don’t even know what else to say.

          • First off, the entire judicial system is a mess. Guilty people get off all the time, people who have committed low level crimes wind up being treated more harshly than murderers, rapists, terrorists, child molesters, etc. In a society where we can only hope for prison justice where the system has failed the victims of these crimes, we have had to take things into our own hands.
            On the flipside, there are innocent people who have served many years for crimes they did not commit. DNA evidence years down the line prove their innocence, only after they have had precious years of their lives robbed from them. Why? Because they were an easy target. Because they were able to close the case quick. Because the jurors wanted to be finished with their jury duty. Because people told the investigators what they thought they wanted to hear. Because people can be easily intimidated by cops. I can keep going here…
            What I cannot stress enough is the fact that we are basing our opinions on the information that was presented to us in the documentary. Yes, obviously whoever writes the documentary will have their own opinions on the subject which will most likely be reflected in the final product. For example, Supersize Me. For anyone not familiar, Supersize Me is a documentary about a guy who aims to show how unhealthy fast food is by eating only McDonalds for breakfast, lunch and dinner over a period 30 days I believe. At the end of the 30 days his weight, bloodwork and vitals are taken to see how much of an impact all this fast food had on his body. The results of course are terrible- I digress. The point I am trying to make is, we are only given the information that people want us to have, that the media wants us to see. Do you think Supersize Me could have been created by someone who did not have a negative view of fast food? Do you think they could have lived solely on McDonalds for 30 days and their health would improve rather than decline? They could have had the salads on the menu instead of the greasy burgers, right?
            I don’t think anyone here is against looking into other available information regarding this case- whether proving innocence or guilt. I myself am quite interested to hear the other side of this case, that way I can draw my own conclusion and form my own opinion. To sit there and call people “dummies” and “spoon fed zombies” is just ridiculous and ignorant of you. We are all allowed to form our own thoughts and decisions, again, based on the information given to us in the documentary. And if you can honestly say, knowing nothing more about this case than was presented to you in the documentary that this was a complete and thorough investigation which followed protocol, along with a fair trial and both Avery and Dassey were guilty beyond a reasonable doubt- then ok, you are more than entitled to your own opinion. But you know what? Don’t bash anyone else for thinking otherwise.

          • The lawsuit was dropped as soon as he was charged with this murder. How convenient for those who would have had to pay. How convenient that the jury in Brendan’s trial never saw the part of the tape that showed him saying they ‘got to his head’. He waved his rights and talked to them because he didn’t fully understand his rights and that poor excuse for a lawyer allowed him to be interrogated without him or any legal representation. His own mother wasn’t even allowed to be there with him and he was a minor! He had nobody except these ruthless, bully investigators badgering him for hours. Even that investigator telling him that he wouldn’t or couldn’t help him if he didn’t tell ‘the truth’ (what they wanted him to say). They even told the kid that they wanted to hear it coming out of his mouth. All because the cops were wrong the first time and they egotistically wanted to save their own asses. They knew that if they would have been found out the first time and had to pay up, other cases they worked on could have been called into question. Convenient, too, that this murder happens before two key players’ depositions. Which caused them to be cancelled. NO DNA evidence where she was supposedly killed. Then this planted evidence on his property and in the vehicle. There were no prints of his on or near that car. He could have crushed the car if he wanted to. Why didn’t he? Why did that cop run her plates? To make sure he was planting the evidence in the right vehicle on the property perhaps? If his blood was found there, why no prints? He more than likely had no idea the vehicle was on his property. Those deleted messages from her phone? Who were they from? Why were the phone records not combed through? Why were there no interviews and no alibis from the closest to her? Because the cops knew who killed her already. It sure as heck wasn’t Steven Avery, but that of course didn’t matter to his jury. If the truth finally comes to light, and I sure hope it does, everyone involved in framing him should be sitting where he is with no hope in heck of ever getting out. With no protective custody. General population all the way. Then Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey should have the justice they really deserve.

          • Do you know who maintains that website? steveaverydotcom
            The Avery transcripts don’t appear to be digital copies. Maybe scanned pages? Based on the type-face and the “2007” stamp, I’m willing to assume that the transcripts are from 2007. If so, that might be a good indication of who owns/runs the site.

            Regardless, having the legal pleadings, investigation reports, exhibits and transcripts in one location is helpful. I’d still advise against the “factual” narratives, though.

          • Yes, a redditor runs and operates that website. If you’re on Reddit I can give you his handle–he’s insanely good at answering questions.

            You’d advise against “factual narratives”, huh? Well, you and everyone else apparently.

          • Yeah, I was being facetious. The transcripts and all the trial exhibits (admitted into the record) are the best source material for basing an opinion about the 2005 matter. The “1985” left out more than the composite sketch. Relying on another person’s summary of events is lazy and and often leads to reliance on inaccurate information.

          • Except that person has literally read every single thing there is to read about this case. Meanwhile half of what you say is either pure speculation or at least partially inaccurate.

          • You have to be more specific–I generally review and edit comments only right after I’ve posted them.

          • Joseph, you talk to other people like a 12 year old, I hope you get to be judged and sentenced for anything you do at ll in the same County as Steven and Brendan Avery.

            We all know why they wrongly convicted Steven AGAIN—Money and to Save Face. This was a sham the moment the Sheriff’s Department got involved with Steven and Brendan after they wrongly convicted Steven and sent him to prison for 18 years. He was innocent then and now,

            Judge Willis was the one who decided no Appeal? The same Judge who sentenced him? “When the rights of one man are taken, the rights of ALL men will be taken.” Everyone should stand up for them. Steven is out of Appeals – there is enough scam and sham in this case like both Attorneys for Prosecution and Defense misconduct (sex addiction and drug addiction) for a retrial of this case BUT WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF? That they will be the ones brought up on charges and sentenced in their own Judicial System – that would scare anybody,

            Look what they did to that little boy with learning difficulties who thought he was going to go back to school to turn in his project that same day> I am disgusted with everyone involved excluding Stevens Attorneys.

          • Laura, you’re right! Look what they did to that child!! That is the worst atrocity ever put on a 16 year old child with a learning disability. They refused to let his mother in while they interrogated him and they knew his mother would have protected him from those atrocities. Joseph, Your a moron with the tunnel vision!! First off I truly believe it was framed on account of the people involved with the conviction of Steven Avery in 1985 because they knew if they lost the lawsuit that the state investigation on that could’ve and most likely would’ve brought criminal negligence on the county for falsifying evidence to get a conviction and ignoring the fact that in 1995 in another county the rapist on the 1985 case was caught and a detective took a statement from him admitting to that crime called the Manitowoc Detective Lenks and he brushed it under the carpet! * years later DNA exonerated him and the reason Lenks tried to cover it up in 95 is because he didn’t think he (Avery) would have NEVER been released!!!Cops are not stupid! They are trained in a lot of psychological attributes in a person of low intelligence (Dassey) and they found a easy target!! If the Manitowoc county sheriff’s Department was truly on the up and up they would’ve stayed out of and off of the Avery property to make sure the case was not TAINTED in any way possible!! There is not one person on this planet that would’ve been allowed to question my child without my being there. If my son would have given a statement like that, Wisconsin would have been bankrupt forever. You are not allowed to question a minor without a lawyer and or the parents. I know because when I was 14 I committed a felony and when I was picked up for questioning I did not know the law and gave a statement that could have been used against me but my lawyer had it thrown out! Needless to say I learned my lesson at a very young age and never broke the law and I never will. So Joseph, people do learn from mistakes and move on to be productive citizen.

          • If you’re just trolling this thread to try to make people that are just asking QUESTIONS of every possible scenario that the police didnt take the time to ask to make people feel stupid, maybe you should go find something to do with all your free time.

          • If people were only asking questions, I wouldn’t have a problem whatsoever. But their actually making accusations and presumptions–very, very different.

          • I guess I’m accusing the documentary of being biased. But I’m not dragging a victim’s family back into the worst tragedy that can befall a family and asking why the victim’s brother wasn’t investigated. I’m not harassing police departments. If anything I’m defending a verdict that was reached in a court of law.

            But to ask why police didn’t investigate other suspects is essentially to implicate that the police didn’t frame Avery. Otherwise you have your answer already: they didn’t look for other suspects because they were framing Avery. If you’re willing to concede that the police didn’t frame Avery, then the fact they didn’t look for other suspects is completely logical.

          • The documentary was not to prove guilt or innocence, it was to show how unjust the whole system was.

            Secondly, in any criminal investigation, ANY investigation into anything, you always look at EVERY possible suspect. I don’t know how that doesn’t seem to register with you? Family is usually first to be looked at to if anything rule out.

            I’m not denying you a right of feeling on the documentary and on who did or didn’t do it, my whole purpose was your sarcasm and belittling of people’s questions seems childish.

          • My belittling is aimed strictly at those who are perpetuating an endless parade of “theories” as to what could have happened to Teresa. To be in a public forum and start “assuming that people are guilty” actually means that no one learned anything about the justice system from the documentary except how to imitate its supposed flaws. I understand the point of view to ask questions, and think in this particular case it’s a healthy thing as far as “doubting the evidence”, but signing petitions to have someone freed just because you watched some documentary is not a healthy thing.

            An examination of the facts should logically lead one to deduce basically the following four scenarios: 1) Avery’s guilty. 2) Avery is both guilty and also framed by the police. 3) Avery is innocent and framed by the police. 4) Avery was innocent and framed by both the police and the real killer. Since the police are not going to assume Avery is being framed (unless they’re also the ones framing him) it is completely logical that they proceeded with the investigation as it went down. Again, if Avery wasn’t framed, there are like twenty huge arrows pointing at him that all say “this guy did it” on them–the blood in the jeep alone becomes more or less impossible to refute. By the time you get to the bones in the yard and the bullet in the garage, you are now in the realm of logic and common sense.

            The reasoned way to move forward would be to look for actual physical evidence that proves one thing or another before labeling anyone as a “suspect” at all. That is how the justice system is supposed to work. A documentary, on the other hand, will almost never be dragged into court for being biased. Since the documentary is in fact not bound to the same rules of the justice system, why don’t we demonstrate our freedom to “doubt” or “accuse” by pointing it first in a direction that doesn’t need to be “presumed innocent”?

          • An endless parade of theories is exactly what the Prosecutor went on national TV and did time and time again.

          • Ahh, so you think it’s best to act exactly like the people you’re trying to discredit. Smart plan.

          • Yes, an outrage that he was allowed to get to the Jurors through the media. One, in 150 or so questioned for jury selection thought he was innocent until proven guilty due to social media. I have no doubt it was the one Juror whose family had a REAL “Emergency” i wonder what it was and how that happened. What were the chances of that and why wasn’t it a miss trial.

          • Correction One in 150 or so questioned for jury selection thought he was guilty until proven innocent due to social media.

          • Here are my credentials: after realizing how manipulative the documentary was I went and read everything there was to read about this case. It was at that point I realized that in spite of a zillion allegations against the police, there wasn’t actually any physical evidence proving they framed Avery. When evidence actually emerges I might sing a different tune but until there I’m simply blown away by the sheer magnitude of people who are just taking it as “fact” that Avery is innocent when the only physical evidence of the case points directly to him in a hundred different ways. I’ve never seen such a lack of common sense in my lifetime–people ready to accuse the victim’s brother because he “might have deleted a voicemail” when Avery’s BLOOD WAS IN HER JEEP. Meanwhile no one is taking the documentary to task when it clearly manipulated information to get a point across. Is it really THAT CRAZY to ask that people wait for ACTUAL EVIDENCE to arise before pointing fingers with such certainty? For crying out loud it’s completely bonkers.

          • RAV4…details count.

            Or is Jeep a local Wisconsin lingo for any SUV???…

            Which might just mean you have something at stake for keeping Steve Avery guilty no matter what the truth.

          • Since details are so important and you seem to be part of the Manitowoc Board of Tourism or related to Teresa’s ex boyfriend….it was a RAV4, NOT a Jeep.

            At least next time you criticize someone for getting their facts from a documentary, you’ll at least have at least one tiny bit correct that everyone can agree on.

            Thank you Joe Hillegas for defending the comments section so diligently.

          • Does my use of the word “jeep” vs “Rav4” change anything about what I said? What a waste of space your two responses were. It’s not even misdirection–just classic piss-poor semantics. By the way, you misspelled your avatar–that should be an “R” instead of that first “L”.

          • the victims familt, all three victims, Teresa halbach, Steven Avery and Brenden Dassey have a right to know who actually killed her!

          • If only it was that simple. Have you seen how many people think Teresa’s brother is a suspect?

          • There is something odd about him, he’s always laughing when he doesn’t know he’s on camera. Something about him and ex- boyfriend.She was annoyed by a few calls before all of this and the ex seems proud to share all of his abilities to break passcode and such. Proudly admits he’s never been questioned on his whereabouts and was so easily allowed on property and anywhere else he pleased when he shouldn’t have been

          • Right. But how would you feel if someone close to you was horrifically murdered and suddenly millions of people were suggesting you did it because something was “off” about you every time cameras were put in your face? The public could stand to be a little more wary of hurling accusations based on hunches.

          • Wow a good example of hurling accusations based on hunches is Steven Avery when the Cop is caught on tape asking if they have picked up
            Avery yet before there was any legal cause to. I see what you mean there.

          • It’s because they found the car first & phoned in the sherif Holborn who told them to keep quiet about it.

            They didn’t know the cops planted evidence. They just knew maybe.

          • yes, they conveniently gave the Cousin of the Victim a map of the Avery’s Property and conveniently gave only her a video camera that they offered to no one else. Interesting that they did not go themselves at all and let her do it. It is typical for the Murderer or Murderers to be the most helpful. They are often spotted in the very beginning of a News cast of the event. Although this could all be a coincidence, this and much more should have been enough to prompt at least serious questioning of these two.

          • Seriously I felt it although i believe innocent until proven guilty, I do strongly believe whoever it was he was not alone and he or they had actual motive to kill her. They also knew she was going to the Avery’s property that day.

          • Yes, as the Prosecuting Attorney in both cases show boated the entire case said, “now Wisconsin can sleep better at night knowing Steven Avery won’t ever come out of Prison again………..while the real murderer who truly framed Steven walks the streets a free man. All of Wisconsin has the right to know who actually killed her or who took part in it.

          • Everyone does have the right to know who actually killed her, but so many
            people believed Steven was guilty. Including Teresa’s family.

          • The Victims Brother lied under oath. He said he did not erase any of her messages-an expert testified that they had been erased. Her Brother and Her Ex-Boyfriend bother hacked into her messages. Why was she videoed discussing her own death? She expressed wanting everyone to know if she died, she died happy. This was three years before this incident. This is typical of someone enduring Domestic Violence. This is why they both needed to be investigated. Investigated because of their own actions in this case. At the very least, tampering with evidence. The same messages contained=who actually spoke to her last. Please remember, they were not the only victims here. Steven and Branden are also VICTIMS along with their entire family.

          • They just go where the facts are. Not some wild fable the prosecutor went on national TV and made up with no evidence whatsoever to support it.

          • The prosecutor’s story lacked evidence. The murder of Teresa by Steven Avery had a small mountain of evidence behind it.

          • The only reason a prosecutor would risk a mistrial by tainting the jury pool is if his case is weak to begin with. Kratz needed a narrative to sell because his case was based on circumstantial evidence and junk science. Juries are regular everyday people. In general, we’d rather have the pieces of the puzzle put together for us rather than be tossed a bunch of scrambled pieces to put together. After all these days, you’ve clearly done nothing to educate yourself on the facts. What a waste.

          • It was? Can you please point me to the source proving Lenk tampered with the blood? Are you basing that on the hole? You are aware that the hole was meaningless (the documentary “forgot” to mention that), right? Are you referring to the broken seal? You’re aware that Avery’s own legal team broke the seal, yes? I guess what I’m asking is: you do know what PHYSICAL EVIDENCE is right? It’s that thing that proves something beyond a reasonable doubt. Why are you stating that Lenk tampered with the blood when there is no physical evidence?

          • Awww, did I hurt your widdle head by asking you to support your claims with actual facts? I’m sowwy. You can go back to your widdle world now where a documentary tells you everything you need to know.

          • This site needs someone to keep the conversations going. Your going about it all wrong Joseph. You are way too obvious.

          • Yeah, and there are records explaining why. In fact, from what I remember it was possibly Avery’s own lawyer who did.

            A lot of time has passed since I’ve given this case much consideration and ultimately it comes down to this: there are the few people who can simply see how obviously difficult it would have been to frame Avery and then the millions of people who will take the bait every time a documentary or Avery’s defense team dangles that carrot. At the end of the day you have to explain away a million little things–most of which have reasonable explanations–so you can reinforce the unlikely over the likely in your head. It’s human behavior, the same kind that allows people to take giant leaps of faith without any hard evidence. This is the reason judges and justice systems exist in the first place, since without them we’d have nothing but people with their “feelings” and “instincts”. I’ll take a somewhat corrupt system held in check by regulation over human “gut instinct” any day of the week.

          • Joseph – let me first start with a very unprofessional shout “wake up and watch the docuseries again you fooltard”

            Ok now for some recollection of evidence your narrow mind clearly can’t grasp.

            Nothing- nada- zilch evidence was FOUND FOR DAYS of the investigation and they didn’t sniff out the ex or anybody else.

            Not only that but once the officers from Manitowak County intervened “omg sudden evidence is found!! And how was the cop who found it!!? The stinking cop who was getting sued for 36stinkingMILLIONS DOLLARS!

            If that doesn’t show motive – if you can’t believe the world isn’t a bottomless yummy snow cone – you my friend should be put in jail.

          • There’s nothing more ironic than some total idiot who watched a documentary telling people they don’t know what they’re talking about.

            Here is some actual information (I know reading facts is hard for your kind but just do your best):

            – The previous entries into the trailer were not sweeps or intense searches. They involved a few officers going in at a time to pull out direct pieces of evidence. The search where the key was found was the first general search and it was broken up into two days.

            – The cop who found the key was NOT BEING SUED FOR ANYTHING YOU COMPLETE MORON.

            Documentaries are made with people like you in mind. You’d rather believe everything you see on TV then figure out what really happened. You can’t even spell Manitowoc properly. Don’t tell me to watch a documentary again when the documentary is an incomplete picture if not a TOTALLY SKEWED PICTURE IN FAVOR OF THE DEFENSE.

          • Just because you read doesn’t mean you understand.

            My case? Your first statement of evidence is completely wrong.

            There was an officer who searched the trailer and bedroom and admittantly stated doing so before the officer who found the key.

            Your right about one thing, it sure is hard to keep reading facts that are wrong.

            Anyway… You do realize he is innocent right? I know your type… You just wanna be on the other side of the fence for that love and attention mommy and daddy never gave ya?

            😉 jk

          • So by your own admission its now TWO searches and not the seven that the documentary/defense implied? And you are aware that the cops say the key fell out from behind a small shelving unit? Of course now all the idiots go, “That’s just a lie!” because it’s far easier to assume police framed Avery than that Avery hid the key.

            I don’t think Avery is innocent because I let the actual, physical evidence guide my opinion and not the speculation of the defense. Avery has a new lawyer now. If she finds EDTA in the blood or provides some physical evidence that Avery was framed, it will obviously change my opinion. But it’s completely brainless to assume someone is innocent just because a documentary told you so.

            I’m over all of this. Read about the case, don’t read about the case. Presume all the guilt you want. The entire reaction to this documentary has been nothing short of an exercise in hysteria and extreme hypocrisy. Ultimately, the only thing people like myself are saying is that you should REVIEW ALL THE FACTS before passing judgment and YOU SHOULD NOT PRESUME THE POLICE FRAMED AVERY UNTIL ACTUAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE EMERGES. Not speculative evidence. Not hearsay. Not even jury tampering. Actual proof that Avery was framed. By comparison, there IS EVIDENCE THAT DASSEY WAS COERCED INTO A FALSE CONFESSION BECAUSE THERE IS VIDEO OF IT. In that regard, I’m more comfortable presuming Dassey’s innocence. Do you see how this works yet? No? I’m not surprised in the least.

            Of course you won’t read, and you won’t do anything but stick to your assertions without needing physical evidence “because the documentary, Avery and Avery’s defense lawyers told you so”. And while you’re at it, you should go believe in Bigfoot and UFOs and ghosts and John Edwards and all the other bull spoon-fed to you by the media in order to get ratings. It’s what you’re good for.

          • Actual evidence was when they discovered the seal on the box containing the vile of Steven’s blood was broken, with the hole at the top of the vile showing that someone took a syringe and took some out. Who had access to it? Who even knew it existed and where it was? The police!

          • Except the hole in the vial was standard procedure and Avery’s own lawyer was most likely the one who left the box in that condition, two things you would probably discover if you Googled “multiple ways the documentary exploited my feeble brain”. I swear to God this is like Twilight Zone level scary. You’re already on the computer–is it really asking so much that you read the actual facts of the case before forming an opinion?

      • It’s amazing isn’t it? The police never asked the ex for an alibi or even look at him more closely. They were trying to ensure Avery got the conviction because it was easier to prove. Usually with police investigations they look at the people closest to the victim first as well as the last person to see the victim alive. I understand them looking into Avery since her bones were found there but they should have looked elsewhere. I hope it doesn’t take another 18 years to get him out. It’s really sad that he had spent a majority of his life in prison for crimes he didn’t even do. This is a huge failure in the judicial system.

        • Yeah, the police really failed big time. Assuming (as I’m sure you and others don’t) that Avery wasn’t framed, here is the breakdown of the investigation from the police’s perspective: They found Teresa’s car on Avery’s property. The found Avery’s blood in the front of the victim’s car and Teresa’s blood in the back. They found Teresa’s burned bones and burned personal items on Steven’s property and know for a fact he was tending to a long fire the night Teresa went missing. They found the key to Teresa’s jeep in Steven’s bedroom. By all known accounts he was the last person to see Teresa alive. His nephew implicated him as the murderer multiple times to both the investigators and his own mother. Two bullets were found in Avery’s garage and one had Teresa’s DNA on it. The police TOTALLY should’ve been looking into that ex-boyfriend!!!

          • Only one bullet was found and only had Stevens dna. Did you watch the kids get interrogated?

          • Two bullet fragments found. One had Teresa’s (not Steven’s DNA) on it and it matched Steven’s gun. The other was inconclusive. I’ve seen everything there is to see and read everything there is to read as far as I can tell.

          • It’s funny that all of this evidence wasn’t found the 1st time they looked and only found after they gave Brendan some bogus statement as to what “really” took place. Then they go look and suddenly there’s a windfall of evidence!!!

      • Manitowoc* Come on man it’s not the U.S. vs. The entire state of Wisconsin. I’m so sick of hearing this response. Milwaukee and other parts of the state are much, much different than Manitowoc. Would you want to be judged on actions of a few corrupt politicians. It’s ignorant.

        • Perhaps all of the people in the US need to start cleaning house when the laws of our country are not upheld by impeaching and boycotting states that violate.

          • Why punish the many who are innocent. Why not investigate everyone involved in Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Clearly, everyone or many knew about the hate the Original Sheriff had for Steven Avery. No one stood up for the people they swore to protect. How about starting to clean up the Judicial System that frees the guilty who have money or fame and lets innocent people rot in jail. i think Manitowoc County is a good place to start don’t you?

    • More importantly, why didn’t the State have to prove that they cleaned up at all. All I recall reading, was they found a 1/2 empty bottle of bleach in Avery’s laundry room. (I know, shocker!) And some of Brendan’s clothes had some bleach stains. They collected close to 1,000 items of “evidence.” Not one had Halbach’s DNA. Wiegert smirked when he answered “Yeah, they had 5 days to clean up.” That’s it! That’s all the explanation he had to give the jury for them to ignore the reality that not even DEXTER could have cleaned every speck of Halbach’s DNA (and Dassey’s) while leaving Avery’s fingerprints and DNA.

      Based solely on the series, it seemed like the burden of proof was reversed. Instead of the State proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Avery/Dassy performed a professional forensic clean up of the crime seen, the Defense was required to prove they didn’t.

      • That garage was ridiculous. I guess we’re supposed to believe that Avery shot Teresa in the head in his garage. The garage was filled with clutter, but, more importantly, dusty clutter. How do you clean up blood without cleaning up the dust? Pulp Fiction, anyone? “Aww man, I shot Marvin in the face!”

        • Yeah, man! It was probably just like Pulp Fiction because that movie was so true-to-life! Who cares if Avery was using a low-powered rifle and John Travolta was using some giant hand-gun!? If Teresa was shot in the head she’d have blood and brains all over the whole garage! That’s how they do it in the movies! Derrrrpppp…

          • I guess what your saying is it would possible to shoot someone in the head without any brain or blood splatter? NEVER QUESTION THE POLICE STATE.

        • Ignore Joseph. There was no expert testimony given to indicate it was possible to have a blood-less scene. None. There was testimony indicating that the magic bullet, Lenk found in the garage four months later, should have had Teresa’s blood on it. Since it exited her scull, that’s a logical conclusion. There was no blood on the gun. There was no blood period.

      • Burned bones, blood in a jeep, bullets with DNA on them, keys in a bedroom. This isn’t just (some of the) evidence–this is a giant glowing sign that says “STEVEN AVERY KILLED THIS PERSON” smacking you in the face until you get some common sense back. If the defense is going to claim all these things were the result of a “conspiracy” then they do have to provide some physical evidence–otherwise it’s really just a possibility like any other possibility.

          • My response is specifically in regards to the “burden of proof” comment. It makes no sense whatsoever to assume that Avery didn’t murder this poor girl because when they searched his property days later they couldn’t find evidence of a “clean up” job. The evidence against Avery was there in spades. If the defense wanted to argue “police conspiracy”, which was basically the only possible theory that would explain away the bones and blood and bullets and DNA, they have to “prove” something themselves. Otherwise it’s just speculation.

        • BURNED BONES – could not have been destroyed in a regular fire in Avery’s burn pit. (based on forensics and witness testimony.)
          BLOOD IN JEEP- possibly planted (FBI test has never been allowed as evidence in any other criminal case EVER except O.J.s and blood sample in Avery case file had been tampered with)
          BULLET WITH DNA – One bullet fragment was found and tested for Halbach’s DNA. According to the State’s DNA lab protocol, the results of the test should have been “inconclusive.” The State refused to allow a Defense representative to be present during testing and used the entire sample preventing retests.
          KEY IN BEDROOM – One key was found, the spare/valet key. It had no DNA from Halbach, evidence showed she normally used a key ring with multiple keys and it was “found” by two Manitowoc deputies on the 7 or 8th search. These same deputies perjured themselves under oath.

          • Yes–we’ve all heard the defenses arguments. By the way, the blood sample in Avery’s case had ZERO evidence of tampering. Read up on those 7 or 8 searches–not anywhere close to what the documentary would have you believe.

    • Eduardo Love
      a few seconds ago
      Right?! How could they say he had 3 days to clean up ALL the blood & bones & hair yet leave bullets behind out in the open with keys too… A spare key at that!

      • Exactly! To be so meticulous and clean up everything, only to leave the key, shell casings and blood in the back of the truck- it just doesn’t add up.

    • DNA was found, but I assume you mention DNA at the alleged murder sight. There is a forensic explanation for that, if a victim is killed/knocked out by use of a puncture, cut or blunt object and that occurs on top of a heavy coverlet then it is quite possible that body fluids may be contained by that coverlet. A gunshot to the head, with the coverlet covering the head is also a reasonable method of stopping blood, bone and brain spatter from contaminating a scene. So this lack of DNA, whilst perplexing is not in itself telling.

  8. These people are corrupt as fool. It is absolutely hard to watch this series of events unfold without cringing, let alone wanting to punch myself in the face. Just from seeing brendan dassey writing his confession in front of O’kelly and him coercing him to ‘involve’ Teresa in the matter was cringe worthy. All they want is lies, not even the kids attorney gives a stuff about him. Gah, such a messed up situation.

  9. This whole thing really blows my mind! I have just one question If this crime was committed in the way Brendans confession clearly stated in several different ways….Where is the large amount of blood from Halbach? You slice someones throat you’re going to get more than drops of blood and would make it way more difficult to be cleaned in a perfect matter that not even crime scene investigators could find one speck of her blood in Averys home where this horrific crime supposedly took place. I watch a lot of crime shows and I don’t foresee anyone committing a crime in such a horrific manner that they were able to completely clear all the blood evidence from that womans wounds. I feel that it was all set up to fall the way it did and saddens me that law enforcement attorneys and judges could actually be this crooked and completely take away the lives of Steven Avery again and in order to do that take away the life of a 16 year old child it makes me sick! I hope their innocence is proven and they can get back what life they have left

    • I agree with you completely. Brendan had to be prosecuted, found guilty, and sentenced to prison for life in order for the charges to stick against Avery and that’s exactly what they did to insure that they framed Avery successfully. This poor Dassey kid was just a pawn in their chess game. A casualty of war and someone that know one would give a f about enough to prevent it. There were only a handful of people that attended Dassey’s trial and they were all family. It was easy for them to use him against Avery.

      • What i really dont get is as far as Dassey…there was NO evidence at all other then the BS confession….no blood no sperm no sweat wheres his bloody clothes shoes ect you know a murder like that had to be messy they didnt find any clothing in that fire pit there would for sure be something its insane!

  10. I fell so bad for this kid! I grew up with a mother who taught LD kids and an LD brother. Quite frankly everything brendan did was completely normal for a mentally slow person. It broke my heart overtime he said “i don’t know.” That is so common! because they really don’t. This is common among children in general, let alone someone who isn’t very bright. They can’t tell you their reasoning. They don’t comprehend what they’re saying or why. Everything about his demeanor and everything about the interviews that were shown were so consistent with his innocence. The only consistent thing he said the entire time was that he didn’t do it. He just played playstation and young out at the house until he went to a bonfire and went to bed. Yet, that consistent story was ignored. What i don’t think people understand is that most LD kids are labeled bad at some point. Mainly because they can’t participate in normal classroom behavior and work. Most are used to apologizing, afraid of being in trouble, and try very hard to gain approval. Most of the time they have no idea whats going on, but they are trained to follow cues and are VERY suggestible.

    • As a general educator whose former step son had Asperger’s syndrome, I would describe Bredan’s demeanor as a “flat affect.” What I’m saying is I agree with you 110% and wondered why no school personnel were called to testify about what is his norm. It sickened me to watch him be railroaded while so confused as to what was expected of him.

      • I hope someone presses criminal charges against those two interrogators, Mark Weigart and Tom Fassbender. Those two deserve prison time. And especially that Len Kachinsky and his hired goon, Michael O’Kelly. What kind of lawyer puts a form in front of a learning disabled, underaged client with two boxes “I am sorry” or “I am not sorry”. Checking either side of the form looks incriminating. That guy should lose his law license at a minimum and deserves prison time himself. The state of Wisconsin has a disaster on their hands. Arrests need to be made immediately. Netflix has done the world a major amount of good in making this their front page feature. Americans need to wake up.

        • Yeah. Those dirty investigators trying to find out who killed an innocent girl. We definitely need more impressionable people who watched a documentary running these investigations and less professionals.

          • They weren’t trying to find out who did it thats problem they had already decided who it was. The investigation was corrupt and had so many holes in it that its not funny.

          • Aside from the “conflict of interest”, what were the holes or corruptions in the investigation?

          • I know enough about this case where I’m fairly certain I don’t need to watch the doc again. Either answer the question or don’t.

          • Explaining all the holes in these cases is pointless because all you do is reply with a silly sarcastic remark because you cant explain it. If you didn’t notice anything in the documentary that put doubt in your mind, that appeared unjust and clearly made no sense then its gone over your head. I cant help you sorry. Bye

          • The documentary put plenty of doubt in my mind, which is exactly why I did more research. I hope you did the same before reaching any conclusions.

          • Anyone who would do something like this would most definitely have gotten rid off the evidence I mean come on he owned a vehicle crusher!! Blood was found only in the vehicle yet she was raped and hurt inside the house ?? DO we know for sure she was even raped? and what about the guy who lived with her? we didn’t hear any one else get interviewed, this looked oddly all strange to me,, planted evidence..

      • Finally, someone has addressed the mental stability and ability of a person in this case. Overall, in my opinion just based on what I have seen in the documentary and not reading any transcripts, this was another case that was botched without an fair assessment. In my opinion the family was riddled with some mental disabilities and lack of basic education of the world outside the perimeters of their own home. It really sad, this case has presented so many victims with no real resolve.

    • totally agree with you Kara. Brenden was trying to get home, let alone, back to school by 1:29 because he had a project due. Remember him saying that? He didn’t understand ANYTHING in that interrogation room. How fuc$ing unfair was that right? Calling him a liar and making him say what he didn’t want to say.

      • Wow, Mark. You really seem to have the magic ability of knowing what’s true vs what’s false! That’s amazing! Hey, everyone! We found a guy who knows exactly what’s Brendan did that day through the sheer power of intuition! Go tell Brendan he’s free to go!

        • Joe, are you Nancy Grace’s brother or are you just normally a donkey’s behind when you are exercising freedom of speech? Everybody has a right to their opinion and does not deserve to be belittled or demeaned. Sarcasm is the highest form of disrespect so you Sir can do the lips to my two cheeks and have a nice day. You are the A for the day!!

          • Ummm, I was actually agreeing with you in that people have the right to an opinion. You really do leap to conclusions now don’t you? You can go back to lecturing me on “belittlement” and then calling me a jackass now.

        • Wow! You have the unique ability to criticize other peoples’ comments and offer absolutely nothing of value to the discussion. Oh, wait! That isn’t unique at all. Any idiot can do that.

          • It’s hard to add value to a discussion that’s been so clearly guided by a clearly biased documentary. The facts are out there if you want to find them. And the police/DOJ are going to use every advantage they have. Did they overstep their boundaries? Possibly. But that was Dassey’s lawyer’s fault. From the police perspective, their only obligation was to try and get this kid to talk.

        • The kid did not understand what the word inconsistency meant he didn’t understand what was going on he thought he was going to go to school and turn in his project everything Brendan said was what the cops got him to say they spoon fed him answers they kept mentioning something to do with the head and Brendan kept guessing he cut her throat her hair , oh then the cops say you shot her and he says no Steven did so the planted that in his head Brendan went through every answer he could give till they gave him the answer JOSEPH JUST f OFF YOU SUCK

  11. Kratz is the only proven sexual predator here. Colbern and Lenk were professional evidence planters and framed generations of our youth for personal and agency advancement. These are the kilers no one else

  12. I am just appalled and ashamed that our law and judicial system is as corrupt as this documentary/evidence shows. To question a sixteen year old boy the way both investigators (Mark and Tom) did was unruly and clearly unprofessional. Brendan’s confession was clearly coerced, involuntary, and false. Them stating to the young boy (Brendan) “now you will sleep better at night” is such a crock of bs. Maybe both Mark and Tom should eat their own words. Mark and Tom… do you realize what kind of imprint you’ve set for Brendan and his future? You both are cowards. I could go on with all the clear evidence but I have nothing more to say other than shame on you Manitowoc county and our judicial system of the United States of America.

  13. I have never been more disgusted and sickened in my life at the grown men who wear a badge and lawyers who took oaths in all my days since the grave miscarriage of justice of the West Memphis Three. Just when I thought it was worse enough with all these cases of police officers already in trouble for shootings and what not-Steve and Brendan Avery stepped up to the plate. Listen, and listen well….forget Steve for a moment-Brendan was a special needs child and it seems like the entire state of Milwaukee is prejudiced in some way towards special needs children and adults. When his cousin admitted to lying that should have been it. When it was proven what sick disgusting tactics his own defense attorney and his investigator did-he should have been released and a mistrial declared. Just what does our Constitution and Bill of Rights mean any more? Just who is the law protecting? The wealthy? The privileged? I am ashamed at our American system of Justice. IT has become a money and reputation game instead of finding justice.

  14. This is an outrage! Where is the DNA evidence linking this child (now adult) to this crime?! I cannot believe this kind of corruption happens in present day. Absolutely disgusting! I just cannot for the life of me wrap my mind around the fact that these jurors, could say without any reason of doubt, that brendan was guilty.
    Now I’m hearing things like, jurors were in fear for their safety so they rendered a guilty verdict?
    After seeing what had easily been done to steven Avery and brendan dassey, I would’ve been scared too! Im sure they thiught, well, what woul happen To us, if we don’t find them guilty? They’ve seen first hand what the special prosecutor is capable of. Very very disturbing.
    M heart aches for brendan.

  15. A very sad and disturbing reflection of the justice system and those who are in charge of its direction. No wonder people distrust this system. If only there could be accountability for wrongdoing, then maybe there could be some real justice instead of injustice that occurs in so many trials. Looks like some of the bigger criminals maybe in the justice system. I , myself have been witness to the justice system when a member of our Family was murdered violently. It took two trials as the first was deemed a mistrial and had to be redone. Even after speaking personally with the prosecution team and then writing a letter to the Court where the trial was held with some valid suggestion to improve the justice system. It fell on deaf ears and blind eyes and the speech I heard was “Do you know how hard it is to change the Justicesystem”

  16. I think it’s safe to say the documentary shames the justice system here and that the jury are either bias or have no regard for getting to the truth?I think it’s appalling that people watching this have made judgements that it was people who knew her that committed this. Both her ex and brother seem to be smiling and determined to have these guys imprisoned rather than saying the simple fact that ‘we want the truth’ and for the right person to be convicted and there seem to be little to no interest by anyone involved other than the defence! If I was her relative I would want the RIGHT person not just a convenient one. It’s also time that the justice system in America start trialing children as juveniles and not adults/fully developed and actually acknowledge their downfalls and responsibilities

  17. How can you be a law officer if you don’t serve the law? If policeman Colborn had served the law, he should have been pro-active, when he received a call in 1995 from a detective, proving Avery’s innocense by a confession of Gregory Allen. In fact, Colborn should be prosecuted for this not doing so! This shows me there was something going on there, because you can’t forget to make a report on something crucial like a confession which means you put the wrong guy behind bars. How can you live with yourself Andrew Colborn? Shame on you! It was obvious to me, you had difficulties with yourself when it came on this subject. It seems you like to pray, well pray for youself not going to heck for this on judgement day!

  18. One big glaring question for me is when the Sherrif’s Deputy called in Teresa Haibach’s tags to dispatch several days before her car was “discovered” on the Avery lot. He was never really forced to answer for that. Here we have a shady detective presumably in the presence of the vehicle where the only DNA evidence linking Avery to the crime was found.

  19. It’s all a bunch of bull!! They have nothing against them ND it’s funny how one of the jurors happenes to have a family emergency as soon as it’s time to make a final decision. No DNA was found that belonged to Brennan or even that of Theresa’s.

  20. Your info is wrong. Steven avery’s trial was BEFORE Brandon’s so it didn’t help the prosecution …did you even watch the doco?

  21. I have a relative who is learning disabled – he has never done any wrong but I know from experience how he is confused by close questioning and is easily suggestible. I pray to God he is never subject to inquisition by police in a criminal case.

  22. Wow,it truly amazes me how people cannot see through all the smoke and mirrors. This documentary is slanted one way (in defenses way). There is alot of evidence that was presented to the jury that was not included in the documentary. Alot of people are forgetting also that Brendan Dassey was not even a suspect until his cousin came forward and said he had told her his involvement in the murder. (of course, she tried to take back all her statements later during the trial) It was only after this that the police started questioning him. As far as anyone saying they feel sorry for Steven Avery- I feel him doing 18 years was just cause for the horrific animal abuse that he inflicted on his family cat. He doused it in oil and gasoline and threw the cat in a bonfire to watch it burn alive. He is a sick individual – Don’t be FOOLED by the Smoke and Mirrors put up by the defense team. Both Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey are Guilty of the crime they were convicted of. The jury got it RIGHT!!! It’s ridiculous of all the theories being thrown around. GUILTY AS CHARGED!!!!!!!

  23. This sickens me. How could this happen. They took his whole life. In 2048 if he doesn’t show remorse he won’t get parole. A pardon is the right thing Gov. Walker

  24. I just finished watching the series over two days and feel sickened by both “trials.” I can’t believe the jury would say that Brendan and Steven were guilty as there was no physical evidence other than that planted by the police. Even if they are guilty (and I don’t think they are) there are so many holes in these trials, they are like Swiss cheese! If Theresa’s throat was cut and/or she was shot in the bedroom, where was the blood? Why did they immediately arrest Avery before considering other suspects like Brendan’s brother, her ex boyfriend or her roommate who didn’t report she was missing? Was there a chance that she could have been killed by a stranger after she left avery’s place? Why didn’t they thoroughly check out the quarry for evidence and other places in the area? Where was she headed after she was supposed to see Avery? There are so many questions! The first lawyer was a moron, the police were corrupt, and Theresa’s brother was an idiot who was enjoying being in the limelight. The scary part is, there are probably a lot more people in jail just like Steve and Brendan whose only crime is living in a corrupted city while the guilty go free.

  25. I’ve watched the whole series several times. I was a cop for 27 years and I never saw anything handled so sloppily. Brenden was berated by those cops until he gave them what they wanted. That’s clearly the Reid technique of interrogation… don’t let up on them, keep after them until they break, that’s what they teach you. But with someone like him… he’ll say anything. It’s like torture, eventually they’ll do anything to make the pain stop. Anything to get out of that room. Steven Avery I’m not so sure about, but this kid didn’t do it.

  26. I think he did it….think of all the conspirators it would take to have this plan work out perfectly and get a conviction. He called auto trader specifically asking for Teresa (who by the way told her bosses from previous encounters that he (Steven) freaks her out) he called her multiple times using *67 then after she supposedly left the yard, called with a number that shows up on ID. Further fellow inmates of his saw pictures Steven drew of a torture chamber he dreamed of using to rape women. His DNA under the hood of the car, at the same time, everyone thinks its impossible for him to clean up his mess, think of how hard it is to plant his DNA under the hood of a car…

  27. The system is corrupt. Steven and Brendan had nothing to do with her murder. There is no possible way, they couldn’t have done all that to her without leaving any DNA on the bed or anywhere in the house. It’s not right that they think that they have all this power so they are ganna use it to their advantage and turn an innocent man and kid into guilty people when they didn’t do anything. It has to hurt them when they sat their and watched everything go to something, they can’t say anything because even if they did, no one would believe them. Those cops got to his head and made him say what they wanted him to say. During court they stopped that 4 hour tape early. Only because they didn’t want everyone to see that he said “they got to me, got in my head.” How could people be so cruel to plant a murder on two people who did noting worng. Steven was already wrongly convincted once and it took 18 years to find that out. How long will it take this time to prove he is innocent. It probably will never happen because the county doesn’t want the public to see how stinking corrupt they are and show how stinking far they will go to ruin someone’s life just because they don’t like him. The system is corrupt and will always be corrupt. He’s innocent and will always be innocent, he doesn’t deserve to be in prison for something he didn’t do.

  28. The system is corrupt. Steven and Brendan had nothing to do with her murder. There is no possible way, they couldn’t have done all that to her without leaving any DNA on the bed or anywhere in the house. It’s not right that they think that they have all this power so they are ganna use it to their advantage and turn an innocent man and kid into guilty people when they didn’t do anything. It has to hurt them when they sat their and watched everything go to something, they can’t say anything because even if they did, no one would believe them. Those cops got to his head and made him say what they wanted him to say. During court they stopped that 4 hour tape early. Only because they didn’t want everyone to see that he said “they got to me, got in my head.” How could people be so cruel to plant a murder on two people who did noting worng. Steven was already wrongly convincted once and it took 18 years to find that out. How long will it take this time to prove he is innocent. It probably will never happen because the county doesn’t want the public to see how stinking corrupt they are and show how stinking far they will go to ruin someone’s life just because they don’t like him. The system is corrupt and will always be corrupt. He’s innocent and will always be innocent, he doesn’t deserve to be in prison for something he didn’t do.

  29. Smoke and Mirrors people!! Stop making assumptions and throwing around ridiculous theories and statements from seeing a one sided, bias documentary slanted all in favor of the defense. The jury heard ALL the evidence which was left out of the show and convicted two murderers! I wonder why the fact that bleach was found covered on both Avery and Dasseys pants was left out, or that Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg shackles 3 weeks prior, or that both blood and sweat from Avery was found under the hood of Teresa’s car, or that Avery had called Teresa twice that morning using *67 so that she wouldn’t know it was him calling (he had just a towel wrapped around him another time she was there). There are ALOT of facts that the jury heard that this one-sided documentary left out. SMOKE and MIRRORS by the defense, and gullable people fall for it without knowing the truth. The JURY heard ALL the TRUTH, and rendered a verdict of GUILTY!!!!!!! The jury got it RIGHT!!!!!!! They are both murderers and belong in jail. !!!!

  30. And to Sharon who made the comment that Teresa’s brother is an idiot who only enjoys being in the limelight.-. What a horrible callous statement to make. What kind of person would say something like that? His sister was brutally raped, murdered and thrown on a bonfire. Horrible to make such a statement – You should be ashamed of yourself!!

    • Murdered and burned? Yes. Brutally raped? We have no idea if that happened or not. That was something the police made up. No evidence to support it
      (agree with you on the bashing the brother thing – even if it is true, it’s still very insensitive)

  31. “Liars Club.” These are professional perjurers who travel
    around the country testifying for DOJ prosecutors. The Liars Club includes FBI
    Chemist, to Special Agents. Their exper­tise at fabricating testimony to use
    before grand juries and during trial is their greatest value.

    FBI Dr Marc LE Beau has been doing this since 1994 as his
    website states. As in the Steven Avery
    Case he used JUNK Science not legally allowed.
    False forensic. Marc Loblow
    also testified that he did do a legitimate test that does not exist. He
    also guessed several times.
    Professionals do not guess. There
    is no guessing in a murder trial.

    Dr Marc Le Beau has been accused of and exposed for his fake
    forensic many times in many cases more
    often than not. Marc has thousands of
    innocent people in all 50 states because of his lies on the stand with fake
    forensic. This is why President Obama
    must step in and stop his injustices.

    Watch him squirm and lie in the Steven Avery trail. Every case Child predator Dr Marc Le Bea
    has touch must be reopen. These people need a honest day in court.
    Every time Dr Marc Le Beau speaks in case it is a crime schene. Just imagine this Trained FBI Child Predator Dr Marc Le Beau has trained over 10,000 officers in America as per his
    website. America must have 10,000 trained LIARS.

    No wonder a honest person never stands a chance.

    Marc tested for EDTA in the blood . He
    said it had no EDTA. The fact is Eggs , meat, pasta hundreds of foods have edta
    so ALL BLOOD has EDTA. How many thousands of children has Marc Harmed for
    personal gain. He is the head of the FBI Labs.

  32. FBI Chemist who testified in the Steven Avery trial claimed
    he tested blood for EDTA in the case excluding the blood framed Avery. FBI
    Chemist Marc Le Beau testified there was no EDTA in the blood. the FBI calls it
    junk science. He testified lying threw his teeth.

    This guy as his website says has traveled around America
    since 1994 testifyibg for local DOJ`s putting thousands in Prison.

    Fact if he tested for EDTA he would have found some in the
    blood. Fact is EDTA is in all blood because meat , eggs, pasta and hundreds of
    food have EDTA.

    “Many of the flaws in our system are so deeply entrenched
    that some law enforcement agents and prosecutors no longer fear any pushback
    from the public when things like this happen,” he continues. “They rely on mock
    outrage that anyone could even suggest corruption and misconduct like this can
    occur, and then try to intimidate the defense from showing the evidence for
    what it is.”

    I can only wonder how
    many thousands of people are in Prison because of this serial LIAR.

    He is a professional in mass deception ending liberty and
    justice for thousands. Websters dictionary says his acts are acts of
    perversion. FBI FRAUD MARC LE BEAU must be charged with crimes against humanity
    President Obama , step in now

  33. It’s unfortunate and outrageous that this boy is in prison! I do believe he’s innocent there is no proof no DNA that he committed this murder plus he’s special needs, they all know he is special needs and they’re doing this to him they’re so much evidence of the cops and there interviews of them putting words in his mouth!!

  34. There’s a petition going up for Brendan for some reason I’m not allowed to post it on this site but I’m pretty sure y’all can find it please sign it he needs all the help you can get. I can only imagine what these prisoners are doing to him since he’s not capable of protecting himself ..

  35. This stinks!!!! If this was my son wow heck hath no fury like a woman scorned!!!! I’d love to take on that wan#er of an attorney and those corrupt cops bas**Ards and I would win???

  36. Here are the facts. Period. Steven Avery was suing the Manitok County Sheriff’s office for wrongful imprisonment and withholding evidence that would later exonerate him. 2 or 3 weeks later Teresa Halbach is missing. They only look at Steven Avery as a suspect. The lady who finds the SUV is the only one to have a camera given to her by someone who should be a suspect #1 and goes straight to the Teres’s SUV. Makes a beeline for it in fact out of thousands of vehicles on 40 acres. Detective Lenk who was instrumental in the suit against the sherriff’s department is the only one who actually finds any evidence and is supposed to not even be allowed on the property but is allowed to anyway at will over the course of eight days without supervison. The Calumat County Prosecuators office goes on national TV and lies about every detail of the case against Steven Avery. They tell this wild fable about how she was killed blood everywhere in Steven Avery’s garage and house but no actual DNA evidence was found in either place. Brenden had his whole “confession” spoon fed to him and the evidence just didn’t support not one shred of what they told him to say. They went on national TV time and again and proclaimed all sorts of horrible things that just were not true to make certain that he could not in any way shape or form get a fair trial. They already found him guilty before the trial began. Our Justice system has run amok! Innocnet until proven without a reasonable doubt went right out the window. The Manitok county folks who were disposed were so shady and lied at every turn during their depositions. They should definitely be in jail for framing an innocent man twice! Poor Brenden had dimimished capacity and is still in jail. He had no clue about what he was coached into. He thought he was going home after he guessed at what they wanted him to say. He had an IQ of 73 for GODS sake. The prosecutor and the Manitok Sherriffs department should be in jail not two innocent bystanders who were apparently framed. No actual physical evidence in the two places they said the was brutally attacked and stabbed, throat cut, hair cut off, and shot eleven times? Come on! That’s is so far-fetched i really don’t see how any of those jurors found him giulty beyond a reasonable doubt. They should have locked up the prosecutor and Detective Lenk at the conclusion of that farce they so blatantly framed him that anyone with half a brain could see it. My 4 year old grand daughter could see that for GOD’s sake! No DNA evidnece at the crime scene of such a bloody assault in a junked up garage? Come on! There case was circumstancial at best and should be very ashamed of their selves for framing him not once but twice! It’s very easy to see that they would certainly frame him over a 36 million dollar law suit especially after they framed him the first time just because they didn’t like him. It’s absurd that they never even lookedat the Ex boyfriend or the room mate. They never even asked for an alibi!

    • This case has so many holes it’s pathetic, interesting he was assessed as having IQ of 73, 3 points over being mentally disabled. This young man in my observation of the documentary and depiction of his character is clearly mentally disabled, and needs support with making informed choices.The lack of support can clearly be the recipe for him to be railroaded into making choices that can be beneficial or harmful to his well being.

  37. Am watching this now and am HORRIFIED at how the sheriff’s dept, prosecutors, investigators and so many others manipulated this obviously slow kid. Even his own attorney’s investigator railroaded him. Manitowoc county wanted Steven Avery gone and they did everything in their power to make it happen.

  38. Hey guys. I started a brand new group on facebook called UNCENSORED Steven Avery and Brendan Dasset, When the police are corrupt. Please feel free to join. Needs more debates

  39. Have anybody heard about the prosecutor being forced to resigned after 5 women who were domestic violence victims came forward saying he was trying to get with them after he prosecuted there abuser

  40. This whole thing was heartbreaking. Brendan had limited mental abilities, his IQ was always a number that fell under mental retardation, I realize these labels aren’t necessarily used any longer. He was coerced into saying everything he did, then rewarded with soda and food after hours of questioning. When the state asked him on the stand, after repeatedly stating he made up everything and lied, “Where did you come up with saying you saw body parts?” and Steven says, “I don’t know.” If anyone rewatched his interrogation, the detectives put those words out there first, and kept saying it, until Steven said, “Toes.” I wouldn’t put my faith in any law enforcement in that entire county, and I wouldn’t trust many from Steven Avery’s own family, except his broken-hearted parents. It also angered me when I saw how quickly even his own sister could believe a lie initially. Thank goodness she realized what was happening to her son and the extent of law enforcement’s manipulation.

  41. I feel so sorry for Brenden and I can’t imagine what this is doing to his parents. I don’t even care about Avery I just hope Brenden gets a retrial. He’s slow and dumb but he doesn’t deserve the type of interrogation he got. One of the things I haven’t seen much in comments is how the prosecutors were saying how Brenden lost weight and was seen crying at a birthday party. I get how this looks suspicious but when Brenden said it was because kids at school was calling him ‘fat’, they completely dismissed it as a lie. Why the f can’t that be true? It wouldn’t be the first school that have students bullying or making fun of the dumb kid. And from what I can see, this kid can really blow up. You can be sad and not be from guilt of a crime. He’s a teen with forth grade reading level, his feelings can still get hurt.

    I’m leaning hard on Brenden not being guilty. I haven’t looked at all the evidence but from the one’s I have seen, he’s got my sympathy.

  42. Right?! How could they say he had 3 days to clean up ALL the blood & bones & hair yet leave bullets behind out in the open with keys too… A spare key at that!

  43. I have watched the documentary and read some of the trial transcripts and watched and read Brendan’s so called confessions .I think they both got screwed in their trials .To start of with Steven Avery . None of Teresa’s Dna found in Aver’y home or garage except for a bullet found 4 months later after numerous searches. Found a key to the RAV4 in a bedroom that was searched 7 times before and turns up on the 8th search laying in plain sight by Manitowoc officers who were not supposed to be involved in investigation because of lawsuit by Avery for 36 million dollars, but were let by Calumet Sheriff dep. to be there as long as one of there deputies watched them . The day that that deputy was not there and nobody was watching them is when they found the key. The bullet was found 4 months later in the garage by the same two officers from Manitowoc county. Coincident , I think not . None of Teresa’s Dna found on key. So I guess he wiped the key off but only left his DNA on it. They found her bones in three different places on his property so I guess he burned her in his backyard and took them to different places in the salvage yard or he was dumb enough to burn them in one place and throw them in his backyard burn pit where they found most of the bones.. Then is stupid enough to park the RAV4 in his salvage yard with his blood on the dash but mysteriously no finger prints in or on the vehicle. School bus driver testified she saw Teresa’s Halabach taking pictures of the van at 3:30 – 3:40 pm and a man that delivers propane says he seen a blue medium size suv pulling out of the road that leads to the Avery Salvage yard between 3:30 – 4:00 pm he was not positive it was hers but probably was . That is just a few things I have found out in my investigation .I am hooked on this case . lol

  44. what i found most interesting was the key had Avery’s DNA on it, but not Teresa’s (if i remember it correctly). how is that possible?

  45. and it took them 7 or 8 searches to find that key in a room that was no bigger than 10’x10′ and those two shady officers that found it

  46. No mention of Brendan confessing to his mother over the phone on May 13, 2006? How did these evil rotten police coerced that confession?

  47. so f***** up free these people. ken kratz will burn in heck and never be forgotten. even worse whats wrong with the jury

  48. this makes me so mad who cant read thru the bs both of the averys are innocent and the holboch brother needs to quit trying to call them lairs and look at the facts and actual real evidence and not all the misleading lies ken kratz help put together he will never see the light on the other side and I hope he is happy with what he has done to two innocent people I hate the guy and cant express it enough

  49. Making a murder! In season 6 there is a part where it shows an old men standing looking into the camera he’s wearing a blue shirt and black pants. This seems to look a lot like a man that was a serial killer at the time and took pride in setting up his victims! This man is Edward Wayne Edwards. This should be looked into as this fits how this man was. He was a man that was very smart in how to set up people for the murders that he did. Look into how this could be him! Not saying it is for sure but this should be investigated further! As it seems it could be he was framed bye the police but this man Edward Wayne Edwards liked to commit the murders and then be part of the investigation as being part of the search party he knew how to set up people very well! And this would explain how the key would have got on the floor. The hole in the blood vial the nurse did that with taking the blood sample! But also not saying that it was not tapered with because it was!! you also can reuse the same hole to get a blood sample! Lots of theories of what could of happen! I do know this that Avery did not commit this crime. Nothing leads to him because everything the nephew said does not make any sense! No blood found on the Avery property at all bedroom or Garage!!! It is ether the police or this Edward Wayne Edwards guy!!

  50. Wish the cops were in jail. I can’t stand them. Disgusts me. Zero evidence and a jury who was 75% voting innocent until the very jurors corrupted their peers minds. Gross. Terribly sorry for Avery. I can’t stand those cops. Hope they have truth revealed sooner than later.

  51. Brendan was scared of the police. I believe his statement about helping with the fire and seeing the body parts in the fire. If you see every other interview afterwords he had to think about everything he was going to say but the initial interview when he said his uncle had killed her and he had nothing to do with it he did not hesitate. the police made him believe that he was involved it is obvious and why they even interviewed him after he told them what is uncle did is beyond me. Brendan deserves to be free. The poor kid, now grown man is extremely depressed and who wouldnt be. Im so sorry this boy had to go through this and I think Steve Avery should do what is right and tell the police that his nephew had nothing to do with it.

  52. It’s important to note that Steven himself has an IQ around 70
    according to his first attorney…..I’d like to know how two low-IQ
    people were smart enough to do this stuff without being obvious about
    it. It’s all wrong.

  53. Every time I hear or read about this Case I get so p.o.!!! I think part of the problem boils down to
    Attorneys, District Attorneys, etc. having this game mentality. They have say 11 wins and no losses so they do whatever they can to win a case. It doesn’t matter if that means withholding evidence or even breaking the law and it’s disgusting!! Something needs to change. These are human beings lives that they are playing with. Some D.A.’s won’t even take a case if it’s not winnable in their eyes. They actually care more about their success of winning cases than they do about representing an innocent human being. And if you happen to be poor, they care even less. They need to make some new laws so that the guilty parties breaking the law, planting and withholding evidence go straight to JAIL. Only then will this type of CORRUPTION STOP!!!

  54. Crooked cops everywhere and the legal system has a hard time admitting it. Lawyers, judges, law enforcement, investigators…..they were pissed Steven beat the first rap….making him innocent all along. He was suing the piss out of them, as he should. They weren’t going to let that happen, cause they would be held individually liable for damages, no insurance protection for felony coverup, not to mention jail for cops.

LEAVE A REPLY