Earlier in December, Netflix released the ten part documentary Making a Murderer. The series focuses on the life of Steven Avery. Avery was exonerated in 2003 after serving 18 years in prison for false rape convictions. After filing suit for wrongful imprisonment, Avery was accused of murdering a photographer. Making a Murderer has brought widespread attention to the case, and raised questions about where Steven Avery is today and what the future of his case looks like.
Steven Avery’s Early Crimes & False Conviction
Steven Avery was born in Manitowoc County, Wisconsin, in 1962. Not much is known about his early life except his criminal convictions. In 1980, Avery was sentenced to 10 months in prison for burglary of a nearby bar. Two years later, when he was 20, Avery pleaded guilty to animal cruelty after brutally killing his own cat.
In 1985, Avery was charged with assault and for possession of a firearm as a felon, and for a separate event, sexual assault, and attempted rape. Despite 16 alibi witnesses, the jury convicted Avery for the sexual assault based on the victim’s eyewitness account and his history of criminal activity. He was sentenced to 32 years in prison.
A petition for DNA testing was granted in 1995, and revealed evidence of an unknown person. However, Avery’s motion for a new trial was denied, as the new DNA evidence did not itself clear him. In 2002, as part of normal operations, the Wisconsin Innocence Project requested DNA testing of further evidence. The Wisconsin Innocence Project is a non-profit which works to exonerate wrongly convicted people in the state of Wisconsin, so far freeing over 300 people.
Their work linked Gregory Allen to the case, a convicted felon who looked strikingly like Avery. At that point, Allen was already serving a 60-year term for a sexual assault in Green Bay which occurred after the 1985 crime Avery was serving a sentence for.
Exoneration and Halbach Murder Details
In 2003, the Wisconsin Innocence Project, along with the Manitowoc County District Attorney, petitioned and received a dismissal of the charges against Steven Avery, and he was released. Over the next few years, the Innocence Project was able to use Avery’s case to spearhead a reform in how Wisconsin approaches eyewitness testimony. By 2005, the Wisconsin Department of Justice adopted a new witness identification protocol. Also that year, Avery filed suit against Manitowoc County, as well as the sheriff and district attorney who had been serving during his wrongful conviction.
The same day that state legislators were passing what was then called the Avery Bill, in an attempt to prevent wrongful convictions, Teresa Halbach went missing. Halbach, a photographer for Auto Trader Magazine, was scheduled to meet with Avery at his family’s business, Avery Auto Salvage. On October 31st, 2005, Teresa Halbach disappeared.
Two weeks later, Steven Avery was charged with her murder. Immediately, Avery accused the authorities of attempting to discredit him before his pending civil case against Manitowoc County. With that in mind, the Manitowoc district attorney transferred the investigation to neighboring Calumet County. In March of 2006, Avery’s nephew Brendan Dassey pleaded guilty to being a party to first-degree homicide, mutilation of a corpse, and sexual assault, in relation to Halbach’s disappearance. It’s worth noting that his attorneys have since asked for another trial because of suspected rights violations.
A lot of people who haven’t seen the whole documentary have been asking online “did steven avery go to jail for the Teresa Halbach murder?” In fact in 2007, Avery was found guilty of murdering Teresa Halbach, as well as possession of a firearm as a felon. On June 1st, he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, with a concurrent ten years for the felonious possession. In 2011, a request for a new trial was denied.
Media Coverage of Steven Avery Case
Before the Netflix documentary, there was a Radiolab episode titled “Are You Sure?” Aired for the first time on March 26th, 2013, one segment of “Are You Sure?” followed the events of Steven Avery’s life from the perspective of the woman he was falsely convicted for sexually assaulting back in 1985.
In November of 2015, Netflix announced Making a Murderer. Filmed by Columbia University graduates, the press release said the documentary would examines “allegations of police and prosecutorial misconduct, evidence tampering and witness coercion.” The documentary mostly focuses on the Halbach murder case, especially around the procedures the Manitowoc County sheriff’s department used in gathering evidence against Avery.
Steven Avery Now – 2018 Update
Making a Murderer released on Netflix on December 18th, with the first episode also hosted by YouTube. While critical response for the show has been overwhelmingly positive, those more closely connected with the case have not had the same reaction. The district attorney who led the prosecution against Avery in the murder trial claimed the documentary didn’t ask for his side of the story, though the creators say they did. Manitowoc sheriff Robert Hermann similarly criticized the objectivity of the story. Teresa Halbach’s family stated back in November, when asked for their thoughts on the documentary, they were “saddened to learn that individuals and corporations continue to create entertainment and to seek profit from their loss.”
While the fairness of the views presented in Making a Murderer is debatable, the piece did bring new attention to Steven Avery’s case. On December 20th, a petition was created on Change.org to “Free Steven Avery,” and within seven days had collected over 28,000 supporters. On December 22nd, the Wisconsin Innocence Project issued a statement directly in response to the Netflix documentary, stating a member of their Project was “looking into some aspects of his case.”
Steven Avery has, as the last episode of Making a Murderer explains, exhausted his appeals. No longer entitled to state-appointed defense, Avery is shown requesting his case file himself. With a confession from his nephew implicating him, it seems unlikely that Avery will be able to repeal the conviction this time, even if it was unjust. However, his case has brought a fresh attention to the process of criminal convictions, and helped raise awareness of the dangers of false imprisonment.
Teresa Halbach’s family said that before the released of the documental not after it… this is just a bad article
Correct, and I’ve edited the article to make that more clear, though the statement was in reference to the documentary. If there’s anything else specific about the article that bothers you, feel free to let me know.
What is very sad about this case is the incompetence in which the local police and sheriffs handled this case. They should of looked for many possible suspects instead of just focusing on one person because he sued them for forty million dollars due to false imprisonment, if Steven Avery turns out to be not the killer then the real killer could be walking around their community looking for other victims.
Also not mentioned was the bones of Theresa Kalmbach was found in a fire pit on Avery’s property along with her car buried under brush and other debris. SO, in that case, the police found Kalmbach’s remains, let a murder continue on the loose, moved the remains and planted the car on Avery’s property. The DNA didn’t exhonerater Avery of the rape case. The results didn’t ruke Avery out they just opened it up to other possible perpetrators. Ipartially covered the trial. Dassey may have gotten a bad deal because of his limited mental capabilities. Dassey could tell right from wrong.
You’re right that the DNA evidence (ultimately, a single hair,) didn’t exonerate Avery, but it was a cold hit for Gregory Allen, which served the same legal purpose.
I’m currently writing an article about Dassey, and one thing I find interesting is how much focus Making a Murderer brings to his mental capabilities, when it’s acknowledged in the first episode that Steven Avery also had cognitive issues which could have contributed to his inability to defend himself in the 1985 case.
DNA did rule him out! It was someone else’s, Gregory Allen.
Yeah, dude. Not sure when you covered this but there were two dna tests. The first showed that there was dan under her fingernails that weren’t his or hers. They refused to accept that evidence. 8 years later, there was a 2nd dna test that showed conclusively that a pubic hair belonged to someone else and that same person confessed to brown county they did it.
It’s a total disgrace!!! That sergeant colburn was clearly lying throughout the whole process!!
The first dna test had some alleles that marched Steven Avery and some that didn’t. But as I have mentioned, the police and prosecutors were also going off a positive i.d. from the victim. A judge was asked to rule on the admissibility of the first dna case. Was he wrongly convicted?Yes…was he framed the first time? no. Twelve jurors all came to the same conclusion.
I don’t think you understand alleles
The positive ID was made after the Deputy Sheriff showed her a picture of Steven Avery, the same Picture he used to trace the Sketch he did. Then showed that to her as well. Who did you cover this story for, what paper or publication. What about the City police coming over and telling the Sheriff he had the wrong man. The Sheriff, District Attorney and the Judge had all had dealings with Allen in the past year. The AG for Wisconsin should be ashamed of herself for finding no wrongful action took place. This man was most likely framed once, for certain and possibly twice.
They wrongfully withheld information on Gregory Allen! Did you even watch this?? Of course he was framed.
It is clear that Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey are innocent. After watching Brendan’s confession, it was coerced from a young man who was basically told what to say and didn’t know any better. It is scary that our justice system is so corrupt and although this specific sheriff’s office was not to be investigating, it is funny that they were the one’s who found all of the “evidence”. How convenient. I hope they get released soon and these corrupt police and prosecutors are punished for what they have done. Maybe send them to jail and see how they like it in there. It seems as though Avery was targeted right from the beginning. Why was that stalker who kept calling Teresa not investigated further? Or her roommate who never reported her missing until her father was looking for her? There are SO many other circumstances that should have been investigated, but even the judge in this case was useless and of course is biased because God forbid he go against his town, his county, his police force.
I just finished the series and am appalled at the total lack of evidence. You would think the Halbach family would want to know what happened to their daughter. Why can no one hire a private detective to investigate her murder from scratch. Above all else, what makes absolutely no sense, and there is plenty, is where his motive is? The judge said it himself, he was set for a pretty decent life, possible marriage a somewhat decent settlement and the regret and compassion of a community! Where is the motive to kill a woman that he was known to have contact with and then leave all the so called evidence of his crime all over his property? It’s not like he didn’t have some experience with the criminal justice system, 85′ conviction.
If I had the means ( money ) I would personally want to investigate her murder, from the phone records, to the unexplained repeated calls she was trying to ignore. The phone calls, along with details about her truck being spotted by the one deputy, ref 99′ toyota, not to mention the crux of any case possible motive?! It is my strong belief that her killer was way more familiar to her then Steven Avery was! If anyone knows of anyway I can help these two innocent men, I would consider it a good use of my time and we all know how valuable that is, in this short amount we get on this earth. Sincerely, Z Petrie
There was only no evidence in the documentary. The entire thing is one big logical fallacy… Proving that you can tell any story if you have the power to edit what is shown. Look up what they conveniently left out, and then feel like I do… First I was appalled at what was done to Avery, now I’m appalled that I was made to feel sympathy for a murderer so some film makers could tell a good story, while leaving out anything that got in the way.
Give a source for this “secret information” that we can look up that “tells the whole story” or simply stop typing your unhelpful remarks on this thread.
Amen
Watching making a murderer? Here is some evidence not added to the documentary but brought up
In the trial watch the other documentary on dateline:
This was information we received from Ken Kratz and I agree, not a likable person. If Avery didn’t do it – who did is my question?1. Avery’s past incident with a cat was not “goofing around”. He soaked his cat in gasoline or oil, and put it on a fire to watch it suffer.
2. Avery targeted Teresa. On Oct 31 (8:12 am) he called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send “that same girl who was here last time.” On Oct 10, Teresa had been to the property when Steve answered the door just wearing a towel. She said she would not go back because she was scared of him (obviously). Avery used a fake name and fake #, giving those to the AutoTrader receptionist, to trick her into coming.
3. Teresa’s phone, camera and PDA were found 20 ft from Avery’s door, burned in his barrel. Why did the documentary not tell the viewers the contents of her purse were in his burn barrel?
4. While in prison, Avery told his cell mate of his intent to build a “torture chamber” so he could rape, torture and kill young women when he was released. He even drew a diagram. His other cell mate was told by Avery that the way to get rid of a body is to “burn it”…heat destroys DNA.
5. Her bones in the firepit were “intertwined” with the steel belts, left over from the car tires Avery threw on the fire to burn, as described by Dassey. That WAS where her bones were burned!
6. Also found in the fire pit was Teresa’s tooth (ID’d through dental records), a rivet from the “Daisy Fuentes” jeans she was wearing that day, and the tools used by Avery to chop up her bones during the fire.
7. Phone records show 3 calls from Avery to Teresa’s cell phone on Oct 31. One at 2:24, and one at 2:35–both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn’t know it him…both placed before she arrives. Then one last call at 4:35 pm, without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up, so tries to establish the alibi call after she’s already tied up in his trailer, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn’t need the *67 feature.
8. Avery’s DNA was on the victim’s hood latch (under her hood in her hidden SUV). Ballistics said the bullet found in the garage was fired by Avary’s rifle, which was in a police evidence locker since 11/6…if the cops planted the bullet, how did they get one fired from HIS gun?
Hi Laurie,
No intent to argue what you stated, which does make him seem more likely to be the muderer, and I want to coment with all redpects to your opinon, afterall you have all the reasons to believe in what you said. First I would like yo say that I agree with you that the calls are suspecious, but since I don’t have enough information aboit it, it is hard for me to make any further comments about it. Let’s just remember a few things:
– All the things people said she did or said are not (or should not) be admissable in court because it is hearsay. Same goes to what people say Steve said or did in prison. It should only be admissiable in Court if Teresa was available to be questioned and confirm that she said those things. Since she is obviously not available, those statements should not have been made at trial and if they were, to me is once again failure of the Court to properly conduct his trial. To me this should not have been admissable as evidence.
– All of the contents of her purse being there or not, to me falls into the same theory that if he was framed, all of those personal belongings were dumped there together with her body. Therefore I would not consider those evidence. Maybe I misunderstood this part, but wasn’t parts of her bones found on a somewhat neaby fire pit? Why would that be? They said that it was more likely that his place was the place where he burned her body because the majority of the bones was found there. To me if someone were to burn her body and move the bones some place else, it be reasonable to believe that they would move the majority of the bones to Steve’s property and maybe leave by mistake or oversight some behind. There is no reasonable explanation to their theory on my mind. So I would say it is not proven beyond reasonable doubt she was burned there.
– Another curious fact is if he really raped her and brutally murdered her, cutting her throat, and shooting at her, where is the evidence of all that? Where is the blood. The only way for that to happen would be if Steven was somekind of “Dexter”, a psycopath, extremeally smart, that was able to eliminate all kinds of evidence to the murder. All but 1 bullet, id, and a huge truck in his back yard, with his blood on it, that he could have easely had destroyed with the compactor and gotten ride of it. One can argue that he was not that smart, but then how did he manage to eliminate every single blood drop from the alleged massacre? If there is no evidence of the rape or of how she was mudered, it is nit evidence, but theory, you need to have evidence to support the theory.
Not to mention that they got this theory out of the testimony of a boy that clearly has somekind of mental impearement, to the level that they never even used him as a witness or his testimony in Court. That is to show how much of an unreliable witness he is. I won’t even het into the whole witness tempering which boils my blood. They construed their entire case based on the boy’s testimony and never even used the testimony.
The list goes on.
My true belive in this case is: regardeless if he did or didn’t do it at this point should be irrelevant. First he was denied due process as some very inteligente person cleverly stated above. He may very well be guilty, but it is the law enforcement officials’ job to professionally conduct themselves. By taking the case personally, and deciding on their own that he was guilty from the start, and doing every ilegal thing on the book to prove their point is not only unprofessional, but criminal! They should be in jail for that.
It is their job to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the person is guilty. It is not to prove that he is probably guilty or that he could have done it or even that he had motives as motive is not elememt of a crime.
It makes me mad not that he is (or isn’t) a murderer, I am mad because the people that are supposed to make sure justice is served spit on the justice system, they destroyed justice’s credibility, they made many of us feel unsafe and afraid if law enforcement official. If Steve is guilty, I hate the fact that I am not convinced and if he is not guilty I hate that the real killer is out there and an innocent man ans a young adult lost their lifes.
The very fact that so many of us are not convinced they did foes to show that they failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt their case. That is the standard. I want justice for Steve, because today his rights were violated, tomorrow could be me or you.
I am taking a stand for the preservation of people’s constitutional rights. Something so important that we take for granted so often.
I thank you for sharing your toughts, and all I wanted to give you was some “comfort”, if possible for thinking, even if for a little time that he was not guilty. You were not wrong then as you are not wrong now. It is not easy to be the one having to decide on someone’s fate, that is why we need to be very careful. We only live once and his life is pretty much done.
Thank you.
I would never take the word of Ken Kratz on anything, who proved himself to be as much a perv as the Sheriff’s dept. claim Steve is.
This story is an eye opener. This is the country we live in. This could happen to any one . I believe this man is innocent but the people with the power always win, one way or another.
The sad thing is most of these rats with badges are still highly regarded here in manty. I actually heard a kwik trip employee jokingly ask a cop for his autograph for being on show. I mean they were both laughing and joking about it! despicable!
I wouldn’t like to say if he is innocent or not. That’s too difficult to determine based on what we know and/or has been shown by the filming. But as you very eloquently state, there was a complete criminal justice failure here and no way that he and the nephew should have been found guilty of murder beyond reasonable doubt based on the facts used, how they were presented and the illegal practices of the law enforcement officers involved.
1: Cat as nothing to do with anything
2: She visited him 18 times, but the just 3 days after the deposition he decides to rape, kill, and mutilate the body?? C’mon man
3: Why is everyone forgetting Bobby Dassey lived less than 100 yds from Steven? Everything that Steve had access to, Bobby did as well
4: An Inmate says that Steven talked about building a rape chamber and raping and killing women? I’m sure that inmate is a very credible source…
5: Dassey made up his whole story because the cops coerced him into it, and again see note 3 ^^^ Bobby had access to everything
6: Bobby again……
7: If it was 67 number, how do you know who called? Couldn’t again be Bobby, who lives next door and has most likely met or seen Teresa on the avery site before? Also, this makes Avery sound like a mastermind Dexter type serial killer…
8: ARE U stinking dumb??? First, if you can’t see that the cops went to great lengths to plant a key, blood, etc…Why would u think this mysterious bullet that magically appeared when it wasn’t found after how many searches. The DNA on the hood of the latch? Really? Yea, no way it was planted right? I mean, none of that was happening already right?
Whether or not this was biased, it doesn’t dispove the facts. Every witness the state presented blew up in their face. There was so much perjury on behalf of the state that it just makes me sick.If you use this thing called common sense, its not hard to see he was set up.
Great answer!!
everyone keeps saying the doc was bias! most of it was live in a courtroom! it is clear that these prosecuters and alot of these cops should b in prison! Even judge willis seemed like a complete dumb fool! Everytime the defense was gonna drop the hammer he would bail the prosecuters out by shutting the defense down! He wouldnt even consider the fact that someone else might have did it! He prolly ate lunch at courthouse pub with these guys for years! people forget the judges prosecuters and cops all around northeast wisconsin know eachother! For sure here in manitowoc!~
i had mark rohrer for a public pretender i mean defender when i was a kid then he prosecuted me as an adult! Dont seem right to me! oh yeh and now he is a judge here and trust me he is just as guilty as the rest for not relaying the 1994 phone call that would have seen avery released 8 yrs earlier for a crime we know he didnt commit! They all seem so arrogent like they are above the law just cuz they are the law! very frustrating
Avery called Auto Trader and says send “that same girl that was here last time” on October 31 at 8:12 am, but then gives the receptionist a fake name and # to trick her into coming. Please explain how this is possible.
Exactly what I thought
I believe the name he gave was his sisters who owned the van
The bus driver saw her at 3:40 pm – how did he do all that he was supposed to have done by 4:35?
What did they leave out? Where is this information, what is the source? Sorry but you were very vague.
Wasn’t the evidence that they left out, the same evidence the court ruled out, so the jury wouldn’t have heard it either.
Avery’s had an automobile crusher machine on their property. Don’t you think they would have crushed the stuff out the victims car? There was zero blood found in the garage or house where she was supposedly mutilated and had her throat cut. Do you really think he would have burned her body 30 feet from his own house?? Give me a break John. The Avery’s were set up by a corrupt law agency that were pissed at the Avery’s for making them look inept, which they are. And that arrogant pervert D.A…..don’t get me going!!
Please tell us what motive he had?? It was the three that were about to go to trial that had a motive.
I believe many more of us who “think we are free” in such a screwed up world owe it to people like the Avery family as well as the Halbach family to start an independent investigation into every aspect of this issue that seems to be indicative of, not just these “justice system participants” but many other “organizations known as courts”. They are all involved across this land, “JUSTICE” by definition has a more common feel to it- “just doin’ business baby”.
I can’t imagine any private detective brave enough to spend time in that county to investigate this homicide. He/she would find themselves in jail on trumped up charges really fast. That’s the Manitowoc Way.
Although Donald Trump is hated by many people (not including me) he said that if he becomes president, the first thing he would do is let Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey out of jail. I am doing tons of research and writing lots of information (including writing letters) to see what i can do about this too.
Its incredible how you Americans have such a corrupt system with so many jokers in the wrong places….I mean so many judges and appeals and no one can see this whole case is a total mess???? I mean Brendan …i feel so sorry for him, how can Police, judges etc live with that they destroyed his life…incredible…
and who are you and where you you from? I’m sure your own country is not half as free as ours, even though we obviously make mistakes. Quit talking about Americans unless you identify your OWN COUNTRY.
Karen, really? 196 counties in the world, 149 are “free”, and 89 of those with as much or more freedom as we enjoy in America. Do we need to know where golden boy is from? For one, did he say something about America that wasn’t true? Second, if he were proud of his country of origin he would have included advice on how we can be more like his native land.
As Americans we need to wake up to our loss of supremacy in many critical areas. We are embarrassingly weak on literacy, infant mortality,, income equity, caring for our elderly and homeless, and math & science skills of our youth. We went to the moon and then lost interest in space exploration, not that Americans can name 5 thing we got from the space program besides maybe Tang. Our citizens are barely fluent in their own language while education systems in most industrialized countries produce bi-lingual graduates by high school age.
We execute more people, incarcerate more people, murder more people per capita than nearly all industrialized nations.
Who cares where he’s from. We got stuff to work in America, then we can go to Golden Boy’s country and kick his butt (unless it’s China, we owe them too much money and might not win a war with them).
USA is one of the most restrictive countries in world…..Hell, you can’t even cross a road here without getting pistol whipped if a cop desires to whip your butt. I grew up in country where I had no fear of crossing a street however I desired to-can’t do it here in USA. I could also go fishing whenever and wherever I wanted-can’t do that here in the USA…….You go camping on public land or somwhere near Albuquerque, N.M., then 10 or more cops will show up and MURDER your butt just like they did on video to some camper-only in USA. Nothing happens to these Murderers with badges and guns.
I don,t have a clue how Lenk and Colburn can even live with them selves.They know they set him up.
I just watch all the series last night and I cannot sleep .. wow ,is hard to believe someone can go to jail for the rest of his life with so little evidence , and his nephew too , so young and no bright at all , I feel sorry for the dead girl , but this is very confused ,
Given what we know about 9/11 and Sandy Hook, how can you be sure that the girl is dead?
If you think sandy hook is fake and 9/11 was made by the government you need to rethink your life there is a smith who showed that the jet could have melted the steel beams on youtube.
You should try finding out what the REAL truth is. I find it incredibly sad that you and so many others watch a “documentary”, do no further research, and take it as gospel truth. I truly find it sad.
The truth is so evident in the footage of interrogation, and in the defense that was provided. There is a murderer out there, and any reasonable person can see the misconduct that was present. It is a sad reflection of our justice system, and a reflection of people’s fear that forces them to cling to belief that the justice system is populated with only people of integrity. What research is there that is going to provide a better in depth view of the proceedings? That is the actual footage. If you lack the moral compass to know when people are lying and abusing power I don’t know what to tell you. I guess evidence just sort of appears at random after several thorough searches, that blood evidence vials puncture themselves, and cut their own tamper resistant tape. And that this just happened to coincide when the local government was about to have to own up to it’s previous mistakes and misconducts and pay a sizable settlement. It is clearly a case of people in power unwilling to look bad, and unwilling to let bad people in their ranks face consequences. Even if the government officials thought he was truly guilty, they were clearly coercing all the evidence and statements, and I’m not even sure they thought he was truly guilty. God knows the truth. I wish all the families involved justice. Freedom for the condemned, and the real murderer caught. Failing that only the afterlife will bring these people what they need and deserve.
Debbie, how do you explain the lack of blood spatter in the trailer or garage if she was stabbed and shot in those locations? How do you explain the FACT that Brendan’s DNA was not found in either place?
Open your damn eyes.
She probably works for Manitowoc sheriff so don’t expect a reply since that’s the only explanation for what she posted.
If Brendan Dassey is guilty of that, then I am too! That boy wouldn’t hurt a fly and besides being dumb he has other mental problems. Brendan does not show emotions like anger, sadness, happiness, etc………..Poor guy because that wisconsin UNjustice system seems worse than the iranians and north korean’s governments.
I HAVE done research. The sheriff’s department up there had it out for him and they made good on it. All you have to do is watch the interview with the 16 year old kid and the cops; the kid has a low IQ AND was unrepresented during the interview, no parent there with him much less an attorney. Oh yes, all legal. Simply cannot believe with all the evidence suggesting he did NOT do it, that this has all happened. It’s disgusting.
What is your further research? Please enlighten us!
Why do you think you know “the truth,” Debbie Gross? What’s your involvement here? You sure seem to be spending a lot of time and effort on this.
I think you should go threw the evidence it is all on line, the original court transcripts are there, with a whole lot of other stuff. I am thinking you must be local to that area.
I couldn’t agree more with you Manuel. I am sure this case will be sorted out this year as someone out there will find a way to redo the blood test and check the phone calls. There is more to this case that we have no idea. Let’s hope they are freed soon and have a decent life. As for Teresa, I truly hope they find the real murderer. This whole thing is very sad.
He is not guilty. Interesting the timing of this murder was the day before the 3 depositions of the higher ups on his first case. The insurance companies refused to pay money’s to Steve due to their negligence in the first trial, which meant the state had to pay, and heads would roll, people would lose their jobs. Oh then a murder victims car was found in his salvage yard. And oh the police in that county due to conflict of Interest from the last case, were not suppose to be doing the crime scene examination. Well they did it anyway.
This is one of the biggest miscarriage of justice I have seen in forever. I also saw Wiscosin as a modern, politically liberal and hip place. Now I see it as a Podunk, big brother insanely corrupt place,
Give me that petition I’ll sign it. As a forensic psychotherapist I do t know who in Gods name evaluated that kid and said he was not confused, intimidated and overwhelmed by the interrogators forcing a confession. I’m just discusted.
I am stunned and shocked. The people in Manitowoc County who did this to the Avery family should be ashamed. I’d like to know what happened to Teresa. I truly believe the family deserves that. I’d also like to know how they sleep.
Look at the entirety of the evidence, not what this documentary spoon fed you while leaving out the most damning evidence.
That’s laughable! We saw their words written down and heard their testimonies! They withheld evidence to exonerate Avery when Gregory Allen confessed! These are evil men!!
I would like to ask 3 questions to you.
1. Please explain the phone calls that night from the jail (that are recorded to Mr. Avery) from his girlfriend at approx 5:30 PM and at 8:45 approx
2. The police officer that knew the license plate number
3. The deleted messages on her cell phone
your probably a cop but anyways the prosecution had plenty of chances to answer for there bull during trial and did not the defense is just stating on the documentary all the things they kept saying in trial
There were many victims in this case. The victims family had to sit and listen to all the back and forth about the evidence and the discrediting the evidence, when this should have been about getting justice for the death of the victim. The Avery family had to sit and watch their loved one being framed for a crime they knew he didn’t commit and obviously family members were threatened to say things to incriminate Steve. What kind of duress was put on that young man that obviously has limited mental capabilities? The 7 jurors who believed Steve’s innocence, whom were either threatened or just gave up waiting out the 3 jurors who were going to have their way no matter what. Then there is the public who now knows, that anyone can go to prison, guilty or not, if a community, sheriff’s dept. or police dept. decides they have it in for you.
I think the doc on Netflix is missing a lot of evidence presented in court, there are records of Braden saying Steve molasted him and he telling his mom privately Steve did do it. Also I feel like the show didn’t present some very important background (unless I missed it), Teresa was a photographer for auto trader and Steve specifically request her to come take pics at the junk yard multiple times, Teresa even expressed concern of going there because there were times Steve came out to greet her with just towel on. Anyway, wish the show would cover more of both side of the story :/ it’s pretty clear it’s biased to show that he’s innocent but I refuse to believe if the jury only saw what we saw from the doc all 12 ppl would convict him
Steve Avery was jailed for 18 years, two years before Brendan was born. He got out when Brendan was 16. Just when was Steve supposed to have molested his nephew? More lies and coercion.
Is this more bad information to hurt this guy?
I realize Steven is not the sharpest tack in the box but the fact that he requested her numerous times suggests even he wouldn’t be stupid enough to kill her after doing so.
Maybe read what a juror is now saying that convicted him.
I have only watched 8 of the 10 episodes and I have already determined they are all lying on the stands. You can clearly tell by their uncomfortable testimony. Drinking water looking at the prosecutor for some kind of answers. The time line from the bus driver doesn’t add up with the testimony. Even if they were to have shown the prosecutor side there is too much counter evidence to debunk all of their theorys. The bones found at the quarry ? The lack of blood in the bedroom or anywhere for that matter. The key magically appearing .Then some random bullet in the garage with no other blood in there.I could go on and on. I feel bad for this man,his family, his 16 yr old disabled slow nephew and the woman murdered all victims of something alot bigger than them.
They need to make this into a movie.because Avery wasn’t even the last appt. Teresa left Avery’s property alive and went to the Zipperers residence. Who accused her of being a trespasser and shot her in the head. Then he probably called Eugene Kusche since they were relat
ed , and Kusche was being sued for Avery’s false arrest 6 million dollars each.
Why was a vile of his blood from the 1985 case that shoukd have been sealed opened and a hole in the lid? What possible reason would there be for that? Why would a car key of the ladies only have Steve Avery DNA and none of hers? If they shot her 11 times, stabbed her, slit her throat dragged her body to her SUV to drive her 10 yards to the fire pit why was not 1 drop of blood found in any of the garage or room? That DNA would be splattered everywhere. Why would Steven Avery leave all the evidence sitting in his house or car lot when he had a crusher etc? Why would the court appointed defence attorney and his investigator be working for the prosecution to coerce a confession from a mentally unstable young boy to help convict steven avery? Are they not supposed to be defending the young boy rather than drumming up a confession ? Why would a judge allow the EtEA testing results on court when no court in the land viewed the results as valid. Why would the county police who were not supposed to be involved in the investigation be the ones who found every bit of evidence? The whole thing is corrupt to the core and is all that’s wrong in these U.S small towns. All the judges, Sherrifs, police and lawyers are best of friends and will get the decisions and convictions they want. How the appeals courts throw out re – trials is an absolute disgrace too when you look at all the evidence.
The blood may indeed have been “vile,” but the container it was in is called a vial. (just sayin’ – once an English teacher, always an English teacher)
Jazz4111–100%
with you as I sit here in my “I’m silently correcting your grammar”
T-shirt, I ponder why “vile/vial” is the place you made your stand .
. . there were a few hundred other offenses. Since spell-check is easy and professionalism
is hard, it can only get worse.
also an educator
Anton,
All good questions, but I choose to reply because of this:
“The whole thing is corrupt to the core and is all that’s wrong in these U.S small towns.”
May not be fair or accurate to conclude this is a small-town issue. This kind of
corruption of both police and prosecution is endemic in larger cities too. Crime
Stats (my area of professional expertise) have come to drive behavior, often
providing significant political/professional pressure to reduce crime numbers
and increase clearance rates. Both are incorrectly used as performance
measures, and also produce a culture of conviction over justice.
While the specific nature of the corruption may differ between urban & rural corruption, there is without a doubt, more of it in larger cities, simply because there is
greater opportunity. Perhaps it is perceived as more egregious when in a small town, and the population is fairly well acquainted; perhaps because small towns
(choose to) think they are immune from these kind of “big-city problems”.
Small towns may have had less accountability in the past, but as things evolve from the 1960s over-sight does exist from state and federal agencies, but they are kept busy working venues that have provided a volume business. One need only check the data on wrongful convictions, false confessions, and complaints of police brutality in the handling of suspects.
A few more events such as those bubbling in Chicago, and we may have the critical mass to bring about some change at the national level; alas, perhaps not and we can return to businesses as usual.
A general note to our colleagues and peers here who feel the program is not a balanced report: it was not supposed to be, nor is there an obligation for a Netflix documentary to be unbiased. It was made by people with a POV and it is the system that should be unbiased; I am old enough to remember a time when journalism was that, but sensationalism killed that honorable fourth estate when Cronkite died.
Consider that the threshold for a problem here is “reasonable doubt”; a legal concept that demands a conviction be based upon the absences of it, and a serious defect in the case when it is available in abundance. Avery is either being denied justice or tragically unlucky.
If the behavior of police or prosecution create an irregularity, intentional or not,
that introduces “reasonable doubt” about the fairness of the practice, our system
requires a resolution that favors the accused/defendant. For those choking back a cringe and desire to whine about criminals who “get off on technicalities”, wake up and realize those technicalities are what happens when either the police or prosecution fail to
professionally execute the charge for which we have empowered them. If you don’t like them “getting off”, demand more professionalism from your elected officials, and those to whom we have given extra-ordinary power.
my 2 cents
Absolute power corrupts absolutely….
I noticed the boyfriend as he nervously answered questions. If the police were involved, the boyfriend was their patsy. I thought “who was the smartest person or persons involved in this ordeal” Avery’s were criminal, but not smart. The nephew and Steven had IQ’s less than 90. But the boyfriend figured out how to hack into Teresa’s account, erased some messages. Desperate dumb people leave DNA, smart people know what to do, know what the police look for, especially with the help of the shady police. A crazy ex-boyfirend can be dangerous, stupid criminals get caught. At first, I thoght maybe it was the dumb nephew who was faking his stupidity, but after watching the ex, I think he did it, with the help of the Manatowoc police. I can’t believe I have to wait til next year, but the case has not been solved. Teresa’s parents are the only ones who can push for an answer. I feel sorry for the girl and her family. I have some sympathy for the Avery’s. Man what a twisted event.
The video of Teresa Halbach talking about letting people know she lived a happy life if she was to die soo was really, really weird for someoe 25 yrs old to make. I am 55 and haven’t and not thinking about making such a foolish video……….I have no clue and where they would’ve found such a video. I do believe that boyfriend and the other guy she was living with had something to do with this, and I also suspect 1 or 2 of those cops he was suing for $36M had the GREATEST motive to do this crime. The evidence just clears Avery of it………How does he get his blood all over her vehicle without leaving any fingerprints? Answer: Cops retrieved his blood with a injection from a vial of blood that they had in evidence. Also, the FBI Chemist was not believeable and impeached his own testimony after he started guessing at what was in the other 4 or 6 samples of fluids that he did not reveice from the authorities.
I dont remember a boyfriend I must have fallen asleep, I thought the brother hacked into her phone messages.
They were broke up at the time but the ex boy friend was the 1who guessed her codes so he says.
That is because Ryan Hillegas was Teresa’s ex-boyfriend and he acted more like Teresa’s brothers Partner in crime. THEY WERE HELP SET UP Avery by giving Pam a camera and a map of where she could find Teresa’s suv. ( SO PAM FINDS THE VEHICLE IN 20 MINUTES ON A 40 ACRE LOT.
I dont think that was a boyfrind, that was her brother, and i agree why wasnt he questioned further about deleting her messages?
i thought it said ex-boyfriend..
It was both.
This is exactly what I was talking about amongst my friends and family. They went directly to Steven Avery instead of actually using their resources to look into other people in Teresa’s life.
you make a lot of sense… The ex was very defensive.. trying to minimize the fact that he saw her..Not too many bright bulbs in this tragedy.. Hope the avery’s get justice… Len Kachinsky should be in jail…
I suspect Bobby dashey might have a hand as well. He said he took a shower and went hunting. He’ll I don’t hunt but even I know you never shower before hunting.
I think Steven Avery did it but the cops wanted to make sure he was identified as the culprit and used the others to frame him. Two Rivers is a small town. In a small town everyone knows who the stinky people are and know who to go to first when there’s trouble. The Averys are very familiar with the local police for a reason.
What they left out of the movie Was that the sheriff’s dept lied about Avery being the last person to see TERESA. Teresa left Avery’s property alive and went to the Zipperers residence, where she spoke to Mrs Zipperer, who let her on the propetty. But MAM left out that Mr Zipperer a crazy old man and the last to see Teresa alive, told the Sheriff’s investigators that she was a trespasser on his property and that he would have his dog eat anyone who comes on his property.
It gets even crazier. ZIPPERER IS RELATED TO Eugene Kusche ( THE GUY RESPONSIBLE FOR TRACING THE COMPOSITE DRAWING WHICH PUT AVERY IN JAIL FOR RAPE IN 1985 AND who was beung sued by Avery in the civil case)
So Zipperer probably called Kusche, who called Colburn and told Colburn where they could find Teresa’s vehicle ( the bridge in Two Rivers) the dead body was either in the river with the keys or in the back of her vehicle.
Watching 4th episode, unbelievable that Brendan Dassey could possibly be sitting behind bars. This young man was completely led in his statements. All of this done to put his uncle Steven Avery behind bars at any cost. I am curious why no one looked or is looking at the brother Mike Halbach of the victim. He made a statement when his sister first went missing about grieving that could last for years, I found that an odd thing to say about someone that was only considered missing. The leading of Brendan by Mike O’Kelly, this is all on tape why is no one doing anything about this the corruption. This is not justice, why are they not being held accountable. Evidence not previously found now magically in plain sight. Only Avery’s DNA the only DNA on the victims key, virtually impossible. I can’t believe I’m say this but this whole thing smells of set-up and planted evidence, and I am the type of person who believes your most likely guilty until proven innocent.
We said the same thing about her brother’s statement about grieving “for a couple days or a couple years”. She had just gone missing! It was such a crazy thing to say!
I’m watching this now and not fully paying attention: I think I see the same woman that was raped in the beginning in the court room with the nephew. If I’m correct why would the woman return to all this after “her” case is over? I hope I am being clear. Also watching this the nephew on the phone with his mother say he was at home around 5. If he got off he bus around 3:45 and was home around 5 that’s only 1 hour and 15 minutes. I’m only guessing the average person couldn’t rap a person cut their throat run home clean up completely calm down redress them selves and play video games calmly. That’s a small period of time and to be “cool” when your mom gets home. When I get mad I might be calm and collected but still on edge for at least 20 mins or so. I don’t know this all is confusing to me. I’m not confused on what I’m watching I’m confused on why so much confusion. Do we really have that many dirty people in our court systems, why…..?? I have so many whys!
A remarkable frame-up?
Dirty? ? ? There are many good people who act inappropriately for what they believe are good reasons, but place their own opinion above the process of justice. Some of these good people get lazy and resolve cases with progressively more and more opinion, and less and less process. It is much faster and efficient to just let the cops decide who-dun-it. I mean since they all have at least a GED, very little understanding of a criminal justice system (differs from understanding of policing), and have become tired of losing the war on crime, what could possibly be wrong with their expert and objective opinions?
There was no blood found on the mattress where the woman’s throat was allegedly cut.
Avery is guilty and is exactly where he belongs everyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant
The documentary is clearly made yo biasedly sway your opinion. If it was made from the cops view every one would want him to be executed
The evidence(or complete lack thereof) speaks for itself. He had no motive while the police dept had a huge motive since the lawsuit was going to personally hurt them.
Of course the cops would want him to be executed. They framed him and don’t need him alive to say otherwise.
This just brings to mind how the prosecutor Ken Kratz talked about Avery and low and behold he has a few dirty secrets himself
Steve, thanks for your unsupported opinion, the world can’t get enough of that.
Your declaration that anyone who sees a problem in this story is ignorant is a perfect example of irony.
No need to make the documentary from the POV “of the cops who would make every one [sic] want him to be executed”, it is the POV of the cops that produced this train wreck of justice in the first place.
If the case had occurred 80 miles farther south, the cops could have simply shot the guy 16 times and avoided the need for the documentary and a trial.
While Avery may or may not be guilty, the system requires a specific standard of procedure— that Due Process thing, that seems optional once the cops already know you are guilty. Regardless, whether the accused is guilty or innocent, the system and concept of justice is damaged by official misconduct; and that is not the property of the police to destroy.
On the off-chance that Avery didn’t kill the woman, doesn’t that leave only one possible murderer? That should be far more chilling to we ignoramuses who entertain the idea that Avery may be innocent.
I will review the portions of the documentary that accent the testi-lying of those sworn to uphold the law, watch them squirm under oath as the cross-examination catches them lying, and wallow in my ignorance.
Amem! Great answer!
Awesome answer!!!
Its good to know how easy it is to sway all of your opinions. He killed his animal points guns at women and touches his nephews dick if you read about it all and didn’t just watch the documentary. Steve Avery is a Skinner and a murder and deserves to be exactly where he is… Rotting in a cell
The best evidence you can come up with that he murdered a woman is
1) He killed an animal.
2) He pointed guns at women
3) He touched his nephew’s dick.
Seriously?
Steve, I have read plenty and perfectly capable of an independent and informed conclusion.
I am also capable of understanding the American legal system; a system specifically structured to exclude thinking that you just presented from the process. Nothing you said indicates guilt in the murder case, and that attitude that allows you to be so sure you think you get to tell other people how smart you, is the same one that resulted in his false conviction the first time. And to assist you in priority,
OK, he killed a cat, terrible thing for sure, but was convicted, sentenced and paid the debt.
He also admitted to the brandishing, was sentenced, paid up, and was released by the system. Read all that Steve. None of it convinces me he murdered Teresa
I will defer to you on dick touching, as your expertise is something which I know nothing. However, if it happened you should have reported it. Because if it were a crime, and you did testify to what dick activity you saw, there would be a report and disposition in the public record, read those too.
Absent a formal finding of any action, it exists only in your mind, and seems to occupy you find. Whatever keeps you warm .
But since everyone knows about the actual charges, and penises are only part of your fantasy and not part of the record in the trial, it is irrelevant. Your unsupported venom is the reason why juries are supposed to be impartial. Regards, it would have been inadmissible in the guilt phase of the trial.
So again we are asking you to put up some proof, or wait, I get it, are you a police officer there?
Because just about everything you said is false, assuming that your name
The ignorant are those who resort to name calling, instead of sticking to the debate or discussion and providing facts or information. Opinions are appreciate by most, name calling is not.
so many facts to support your argument says it all
Think they have the wrong man in jail and I do think the cops had something to do with they never liked him
The county had files with memo’s discrediting the whole family and discussing how they were a disgrace to their community. They were Judge and juror before any of these cases wen to trial.
It was shocking how they talked about the family.
I agree! Any intelligent Human being can see he was obviously set-up by the police.
Half of the Manitowac County police department should be in jail. They are a bunch of bullies and thugs that are out to ruin anyone’s life that opposes their authority. I am generally not vindictive, but I hope that the publicity the Netflix documentary provides really does ruin a few of their lives. They have earned it.
I will go one further: I hope those dirty ducking cops end up in general population in prison!, but since I doubt that will ever happen, I hope someone shoots the SOBs in the nuts, in the knee caps, and then between the eyes….with a coup,e of hours wait between each shoot….
Thank you for realizes that.They lies about Avery being the last to see Halbach. They ignored the fact that the real person to see Halbach last was Zipperer, who accused her of trespassing and very likely shot her in the head. Threw her in the back of her vehicle and drove her to the Two Rivers bridge and threw her in the river leaving her vehicle there ( where witnesses spotted iT) or Mr Zipperer threw her keys in the river and that is why a witness saw someone in the river with waders on. HE WAS LOOKING FOR THE SET OF KEYS OR THE DEAD BODY.
THEY CREMATED THE BODY TO DESTROY THE REAL MURDERERS DNA, OR TO HIDE THE FACT THAT THEY COULDN’T find the body in the river and had to use Carmen Boutwell dead body. COLBURN CALLED IN AND WAS HOPING THEY FOUND TERESA dead body , but it was Carmen Boutwell, who died of a drug over dose.
Bridget,
Is there any way we can get or see evidence of that accounting of events? I find that fascinating. Is that series of event part of the newest attorney’s work?
If the man had killed this woman, her body and car would have been compacted at the salvage yard. How the Judges in these cases let this injustice go on, I haven’t a clue. People are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty and there was more than just a little shadow of doubt on the case of Steve and his nephew. The county had more than just a little probable cause to set this man up. Out of 12 jurors, only 3 believed him to be guilty, 7 non guilty and 2 were undecided. The folks that believed him guilty were more willing to hold their ground than the others.
I watched the whole series, the evidence in both of these cases were laughable.
So, did you use any other resources to find out if this documentary is the truth? I don’t you did. Because if you did, you would have found out that this documentary went beyond fudging the truth. What I find laughable is how gullible people are. They watch ONE documentary and take it for absolute truth. You think the county had more than just a little probable cause to set this man (and I use that term loosely) up? Think of the defense attorneys and THEIR agenda. This is so sad that so many people just watch this show and automatically take if as 100% truth. Not to mention they left out a heck of a lot! Shame on you all!
Debbie, I admire your superiority and knowledge of what people have used to arrive at their position. If you have some credible information that contradicts the documentary you could share; or better yet use your secret treasure trove of information to make your own documentary.
I think it is undeniable that Avery got screwed the first time, and that evidence comes from science. Certainly you don’t object to that, right?
In the second case, I am not sure what you object to, the bias? OK where? What REALLY happened?
There is undeniable evidence, independent from the documentary, that police lied, lawyers acted unethically (both prosecution & defense), and regardless of what Avery did or did not do, there were multiple egregious violations of Due Process. That by definition is a miscarriages of justice . Unless you claim the documentary is lying by presenting false information, that makes Avery’s conviction wrongful. That is different than saying he didn’t do it, and I wouldn’t because I don’t know. However, Ray Charles could see that the investigation, and the behavior of the police, were both unprofessional. The case hinged upon a confession that was derived though unacceptable behavior that exploited both a teenager with diminished capacity, and a court appointed lawyer that should be disbarred (for the behavior he admitted to).
Having said all that, please point to the part of the story that was omitted and when revealed to us will cause a reasonable person to rest at ease, knowing justice is safe in the hands of lawyer Kratz and officer Lenk.
Also, the makers of the documentary have substantial liability if there was material misrepresentation of the police or lawyers. We can watch to see if Kratz remains disgraced, or gets redemption through a civil action. Suspect Lenk and his minion with sit down and shut up, rather than invite the office of the AG or FBI to engaged in a colonoscopy scrutinizing his career.
I look forward to basking in your enlightenment. But please have more to offer than “Avery did it!”
But good news, you have such legal brain-trusts as Nancy Grace on your side. I hope I never find myself in that company, but that’s only because my ability to conduct legal analysis doesn’t require a panel of talking heads that get paid to agree with me, while I spew nonsense that is designed to incite the clueless.
Think you can get Brandon to confess to the Kennedy assassination? Easy way to clear murders, not that ethical but easy.
Well said.
How about you link us to this other evidence? And no…shame on you and the judicial system. Letting a murderer go free.
Debbie, how do you explain the lack of blood in the trailer and garage. Did the woman not bleed when stabbed or shot?
Shame on you, Debbie Gross! Trying to influence other people on their opinions. Because you’re a local, you obviously have some beef with Steven Avery. Found ya! Debbie Gross, S 7th St, Manitowoc Wisconsin, 920-682-8693.
Wow, gonna play rough?
Shut her up though because she’s now decided to keep all her secret evidence to herself rather than allow us to become enlightened too.
Don’t be too hard on her, her punishment is exactly what you revealed–she has to live in the backwater county that let this happen. Sorry to the good people of Manitowoc, I wish the sensible ones on the jury had either the commitment to justice or the balls to vote their mind,
And the sensible among the county did manage to vote Kratz out of office– eventually and not for prosecutorial misconduct, but rather for being an old man who was hitting on a victim of domestic violence with egregiously inappropriate sexts …pathetic. But using the prevailing wisdom of that county, once a crook always a crook, it would seem that he was ethically bankrupt while prosecuting the Avery case.
Went threw every transcript as they are available on the net.Any 1 in there right mind can see not all is right. To many suspects not investigated in this trial. Scott Tadych Bobby Dassy who had scratches all over his shoulder both took showers before going hunting on the day of murder Bobby admitted he had seen her. Tadych had a history of violence toward woman. And the 2 of them used each other as alibis. Also add the boyfriend who broke her phone passwords. 1 of the jury says they were scared to vote innoccent . The facts also show the insurance companies canceled its policies to pay fines for wrongfull conviction ,do to incompetence in the original trial. There for the county was going to have to fork over 36 million in money they could not afford. Way to many mess ups Not convinced he is guilty at all. My gut tells me the killer are killers are still free. ? Are you from Manitowoc ?
What does it say that the tyranny of a few could corrupt such an important process?
Can sorta understand jurors who are concerned for their own safety given what they learned about police and prosecutors in the area, but if you don’t have a commitment to justice or the character to stand tall against bullies, then maybe civic duty is not for you.
We didn’t used to be a nation of cowards, I hope this is not a trend. On the other hand,
Crooks get rich,
Saints get shot,
And God don’t answer prayers a lot.
I don’t think anyone is making any claims that the first Avery child was a miscarriage of justice.
The D.A. (who was later found to be a pervert) should be in jail along with all the scum cops that set the Avery’s up. How do those pieces of excrement sleep at night?
Too funny that the DA, who was probably a perv all along, gets busted for cheesy texts and is now working the defense table. He can now add to that list of his attractive attributes, that he’s famous on Netflix
Dude should be in jail simply for dousing his cat in gas and lighting it on fire and watching it die. Avery certainly lied about how that situation went.
Jerry, with you on cruelty to animals. It is no excuse that these were young boys, but thank God we are not judged as adults by poor decision-making while hanging out as teens. Finally, he did serve jail time on the cat thing–was locked up for birth of one of his kids. Too bad we don’t have a policy to spay and neuter people who are making bad decisions. Might save us all some trouble and a pile of money. He plead to that charge and had to elocute, so the story he told had to match the facts in the complaint. No doubt there is lying in this saga, but this is hardly the most troubling one.
Maybe you can remember he was in jail for 18 years
18 years I think he paid for the cat.
how stinking perfect is the case against Avery. The car was on his property. The pit with the bones is on his property. The smidge of his blood is on the car and the key “with his DNA” is on the key. Wow. If he did commit the murder, he’d have to be the dumbest mother**** on the planet to just gift wrap all that evidence to the police. Obviously he’s innocent and those hick cops are dirty.
the DA framed him after he raped and killed her, with his sexual addiction. Then stood in court smiling like he was going to put him in jail and through away the key, I would surely investigate him and his property…
Hell, Barney Fife could have found that evidence. Wow! how lucky for us that the Manitowoc officer found that key after DAYS of extensive searching from Calumet county on that a small mobile home. That must have been one heck of a hiding spot. Whats that you say… that key jumped off the floor and hit that officer right in the forehead otherwise he too wouldn’t have found it. Good for us his expert skills and training were in full force that day.
You almost seem sarcastic. Kinda scary what a few fascists with a badge can do.
The stupid part is that if it was a setup they made a lot of mistakes, and if it wasn’t, the screwed up the investigation worse than the L.A. P.D. did with O.J.
You read a lot about racism ,but if I were charged with murder, and had to choose between rich and black, or poor and white, well . . .
Maybe I am confused. . . pretty sure OJ did it, and positive that there is substantial “reasonable doubt” in both cases(Avery and his nephew). But OJ is getting out someday.
The single most troubling fact for me, is that if Avery didn’t kill the woman, who did?
The parsimonious explanation, assuming it was not Steve Avery, points back to law enforcement or some one they have enticed. They had the motive, the opportunity, and ability.
Victim shot multiple times, where are the ballistic report? Where are the restraints used? If burned, there were metal one on legs according to the alleged witness. . . where are they?
As noted by others, this guy was no brain trust, but certainly had better options for disposal, so if that bad at being a murderer, surely there would be blood, hair, something in his house besides a magical Toyota key that was invisible for the first 7 days. I find it compelling that the pristine key contained only evidence from Avery and not the owner.
While the misconduct clearly has multiple officials implicated, the most serious (IMHO) can be placed on the one deputy (Lenk) and likely a very few others who were complicit in the certain manipulation of evidence, and possibly the death of the woman.
When serious police misconduct is alleged: 1. Deny deny deny; 2.attempt to intimidate those who allege it; 3. Publicly discredit those who allege; 4. Enlist help to manage public perception; 5. When forced to confront truth because evidence is overwhelming, cry “one bad apple”.
That one bad apple claim is refuted by policing research, that consistently finds a core of corruption exists for a while and that while certainly most cops are not that bad apple, they consistently write supplemental reports covering for the bad apple, ignore the indiscretions of their brethren witnessed while on the job, and in the best case, the good apples are aware but fail to act.
To borrow from Burke and John Stuart Mill . . The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.
The Avery case is certainly a call to action, or realization the triumph of evil is imminent—film at 11
This documentary was VERY disturbing…i couldnt sleep or get it out of my head for days after watching. To see what they did to brendan with the IQ he had was flat out discusting. I feel that it is crystal clear how currupt the police were and with brendan being such a slower teen i dont feel he was even smart enough to think of going to the police to confess in the first place i think he was threatned or coerced to go to the police with his statements. I feel the brother ..bobby …the ex boyfriend…and the victims brother are all extremely suspicious why werent they treated as suspects for questioning as well?? This is a horrible portrait of the justice system the officers of the law and lawyers.. all abusing their power and ruining peoples lives. Im horribly saddened for these families and those of the victim.something has to be done about these issues. I believe these 2 are inmocent. No criminal leaves all the evidence on their property to find especially after being wrongfully jailed for 18yrs.
I am from England & I have always thought that the American police have a great way of dong things, however I have just finished watching this documentary & I am absolutely astounded with the actions of the police, the presiding judge, & prosecution lawyers that are in this programme.
As a new Forensic Psychology student this case is a hive of guided questioning, coercion & police interference.
I cannot believe that any jury would convict him based on the evidence & testimony given in his trial.
Not only is the ‘evidence’ simply laughable & the testimony outrageous why would he do it??
Why hasn’t the ex boyfriend & room mate ever been looked into? Her ex boyfriend hacked to retrieve her phone records, why?? Her own brother admitted to again hacking her voicemail & listening to them & yet some were missing, which he denied???
I cannot believe that a man who has not long been released from prison for a crime he was wrongly convicted of then proceed to tell his whole family about a lady coming to take photo’s of his van on that date, then decide to ‘falsely imprison, torture, kill & dispose of her body’ on his own property!? I fail to see how somebody who has been inside somebody’s house leaves behind no trace of her DNA whatsoever, the bed linen from the trailer was never even sent for testing, none of the knives in his home had her DNA, there would of been large amounts of blood in that trailer that would of been difficult for anyone to remove completely if her throat had been cut. The garage where she was ‘shot in the head’ really???? You cannot be serious!! How do you expect people with half a brain to believe that anybody shot in the head in such a confined & cluttered space wouldn’t again leave a huge amount of blood & spatter on almost everything? & to burn her body in his back garden, & leave her car on his property!? This really is ridiculous, he had the means to get rid of the car but chose not to? He could of taken her body anywhere to dispose of but chose to do it at home?? Come On!!!
As far as Brendan is concerned I am appalled at how anyone can say they cant see that his confession has been gained coercively! & his so called lawyer is a JOKE!! The videoed interview with his lawyer’s investigator was crazy to say the least, I though he was there to help this kid????
I feel sorry for the victim’s family obviously, however I feel that the wrong people have been convicted of this terrible crime & that the real culprit is still out there doing god knows what!? Surely everyone that knew this lady would like to know what really happened, why & most importantly who did it??
If I could sign the petition to free Steve & Brendon Avery I would
crazy
Never forget Troy Boner. The Franklin scandal should be a pointer as to where American justice lies.
Change. Org has the petition to Obama asking for intervention. It has 365,000 signatures as of now. If Debbie G. Is correct, that documentary has identified those who don’t know any better. That is about 1 for every thousand man, woman & child in the country.
Don’t know if that is good, but Netflix has certainly become relevant.
I feel so sad that the we live in a world with such ugly people. Both these men are very clearly innocent. Why won’t the justic system in America allow then a fair trial? How can the American system put Steven in jail for what he did to a cat while they continue to treat humans so unfairly. What gives them the right to destroy so many lives in this way? Something much bigger than any of us is going on behind the scenes to facilitate the continued injustic towards the Averys, i hope its not beyond Barack Obama to make thing right and see that the people responsible get what they deserve
The crazy thing is, if Steve Avery isn’t guilty, the police/prosecutors have to be mixed up in the murder. Haven’t watched the entire series, but it seems there could be no other explanation. What are the chances of them finding a woman who died and then creating this murder scene. Someone must have murdered her, either Steve, someone close by, or the authorities.
There are several spelling and capitalization errors in this article, you may want someone to review it.
This is just appalling! I find it quite a coincidence that detective lenks ( sorry for any misspelled names) was there everytime a “KEY” piece of evidence was found…and the Manitowac County was to have nothing to do with the case or it’s findings. Only to provide equipment….I think it’s baloney to say they needed man power that’s not equipment! They were not even suppose to be there. To search a place for that long and be at a residents in a particular room several times not see anything then all of a sudden detective lenks finds a key….in plain sight…Huh…that’s only one of many circumstantial evidence that was brought into the court room. Then to go and search 4 months later and surprise oh here’s a bullet and Shell casings and I won’t even go into the correspondance between the lab and the police that matter…”place Theresa in his house or garage” never did a correspondance take place, from what I’ve read or seen, saying let’s find the truth…if Steven Avery didn’t do it like he. claims who could’ve done it? Search all possible suspects…The confession tape was pretty self explanatory…come on really let’s all use our god given common sense here. I have done more research than just this documentary as well and it gets more and more ridiculous. The sad part is that either way Theresa’s family seeks justice just as much if not more than the Avery family but it helps people cope better if the finger is pointed at what they believe to be the person responsible. The only person brought forward to be that person responsible is Steven Avery. Someone has to pay. Unfortunately this doesn’t bring back a life of a beautiful young lady. Let’s not lose what this is all about.
This case is extremely unethical more crazy.
1. Only Steve Avery blood on Teresa’s car and key yet his Nephew was involved.
2. She was shot and stab but no blood on the walls bed etc.
3. Steve need to make sure those bones are really Teresa’s bones and not someone else.
4. How is it that none of Teresa family crying for her absent even when they learned she passed away horrifically.
I can go on and on but until Judge Fox resign things will always remain the same. This conduct is all because of 36 million dollars in law suit they locked up two innocence men for a crime they did not commit. Smh
First i have to say sorry for my bad english but i wish people will understand my point of view…
I’ve read a few comments maybe 20 and i haven’t seen anyone talking about the jury, at the end they have the final answer. I’d like to know what really happen in there, i remember watching a movie called 12 Angry Man made in 1957. This movie is about someone who i accused of a murder and we see for about an hour those man’s debating if he is a murder or not. You can clearly see the reason why people where voting for this young man to be or not to be a murder and i found that most of these man were tired of being there and already made up there mind about the accused guy. Anyway i feel the like this is exactly what happen for Avery’s case, the jury were not partial and the one’s that tought he did kill the women were probably inflexible and manage to convince the other jury. At the same time they know they have to come with a verdic and they are human so after a while the more open mind change their mind’s. I think before taking everything for granted we have to make some research. We need to forge our own opinion.
The President of the USA is very good at condemning other countries for their human rights attitude. WHAT about the rights of Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey at least give them a new an honest free trail.
By what process do you think this new trial should be granted? Trial court is the only place that can grant that, and as noted elsewhere, the elected judge and other officials have a pretty good reason to fight that.
The appeal process can vacate the sentence, or the conviction (a situation in which the county can choose another trial), or uphold the action of the trial court in which case both verdict and sentence remain.
Wisconsin Supreme Court upheld, only option is seeking relief in federal system as civil rights issue.
The threshold for relief here is quite high, but the documentary may galvanize the public to bring some pressure to bear.
Takes money, which the Averys no longer have.
As for extra-judicial relief, the Governor of Wisconsin already weighed in promising no action. Guy has already faced a recall vote, so not too likely to stick his neck out too far. I suspect most people viewing the documentary and most responding here, don’t vote for governor of Wisconsin.
Unless the Innocence Project, ACLU,, or Oprah get involved, this guy is screwed (again).
this tells us when your life is already down the drain, things can still be worse….there are just too many police testimonies in contradictory of their own words. what happens to proven guilty beyond the reasonable doubt.
The period from the disappearing of Halbach to the final verdict was presented by the jury is a giant feast of mistakes done by the law enforcement.
How can a retrial be denied?
Ok, they have an extra eye on Avery ’cause ha was the last person we know saw Halbach alive. But it’s not an extra eye – it’s all eyes on Avery! They shut the Avery place down and do searches. Find nothing. Still searching. As the preliminary hearings are closing in they present an eye-witness in Brendan. How can anyone not see that the way Brendan was interviewed was wrong! They put words in his mouth! Brenda’s attorney and his helper forced him to write a statement on “how they killed Theresa”. It’s on tape!
In what world is this not coercing? How this made it to the court system is unbelievable.
Then they throw a huge press conference telling all the gory details on what happened to Theresa – without a shred of evidence.
Allowing Lenk and that other fellow (can’t remember his name) to show up on the crime scene numbers of times when Manitowoc County Police made it clear that they should not be involved in the investigation with other than material help. And all the “evidence” was discovered when those two where on the crime scene… How can a judge let this pass on to anything other than a mistrial?
I sure hope there will be a retrial. A real trial with real evidence.
Only in America can innocent become guilty. Kids get guns to shoot up schools, and cops are free to become the scum they are supposed to put behind bars. But meh what do you expect all y’all yanks still think most canadians live in igloos.
Don’t know if the igloos have books, but in America everyone is supposed to start out innocent and if the evidence supports it, they then become guilty as determined by the process. In fact, most industrialized nations incorporate this fundamental principle of the rule of law.
As for cops being free to act as badly as those they are supposed to arrest, you maybe right. There are certainly some new discussions happening about oversight for police. Perhaps before the spring, when your houses start to melt, America can develop a police culture that more closely models the values of inspector DoRight of the RCMP.
I was really impressed by all your comments thus far and agreed with all of them. You seem like a very intelligent person but this is surely beneath you. Why must you insult Canadians with this obviously very ignorant comment? What have Canadians done to you and why do they have anything to do with this? Just stick to the conversation at hand and leave your narrow minded views about Canadians out it, it is extremely irrelevant.
I was once treated like that me and my dad had been blackmailed same kind of behavior out of the good old boy system situated in atacosa county Texas plus they burned our home to the ground and barred my dad from the county after the locked him up in a place for the criminally insane in truth my dad was not but it was election year and they needed to look good i even while i was locked up the sheriff had me talk on the phone to certain citizens in order to keep a revolt from starting by mad at the law enforcement at the time in nineteen seventy eight as the same time of that incident was in the month of January of nineteen seventy eight
Wisconsin has ONLY ONE JUDGE! the stinking bald one! how can the judge of the trial be the appeal judge?!
KD
The judge that presides over the trial does not handle anything about the appeal process. What you saw were petitions for post conviction relief; that is the request for new trial and a few other things. These are essentially extensions of the trial process. They are required to be heard by the trial court- ergo the same judge.
Not impressed with his vision of justice, but he, like most elected officials, is more concerned with the public perceptions. Sad, but common. The judge would lose more votes for letting the guy that seems to be unpopular get away, than for being overturned on appeal.
Further, all county officials would be damaged by Avery’s civil suit, both politically and financially. Not for a minute would I make an excuse for xany of them, but the external and collateral damage is very real.
I have never had a shower and went hunting I have taken a shower after hunting. Strange that both Scott tadych and Bobby Dassy both took showers before going hunting and then used each other has alibies mean while Bobby has scratches on his shoulder,says they were made by a pup. any pics of the pup.?? both hated Steven Avery .Scott is going to be Bobbys step dad. Yet the defence was not allowed to bring this to court.??? to many ? on these 2. This happened on 31 Oct 2005 day of murder. Plus if you look at original keys for a 99 rav the main key is square, the key in the evidence is a spare key. Also her boss said he had given her 2 keys to the shop which 1 was for her key set. real set is out there somewhere. Who had access to her spare keys.? Just some thoughts. Also the boyfriend should be a suspect also.
I just finished watching this documentary this weekend and I must say that I cried! I am a Canadian and we are far from perfect in our judicial system but I believe that life in Canada is much safer when you’re innocent. These jurors must have been paid by the the bigwigs in Manitowoc County. Poor Brendan…..you could see those investigators put words right into his mouth. They certainly did play with his head. The judge that sentenced Steven Avery continued to talk about his previous crime that he had been exonerated from as if he was still a criminal. This is absolutely one of the worst carriages of justices that I have ever seen. Planting evidence, etc!! Everytime Kratz, Lenk or Colburn came on, my stomach curled. I sincerely hope that they can sleep at night.
I truly feel sorry for the Halbach family for their loss but thanks to this miscarriage of justice, they have had to go through this horrific time themselves….putting innocent men in prison that law inforcement have adamantly assured them that guilty!! Look at all the lives ruined!! Wait til they get their judgement day!!
I can’t tell you heartbroken we are for all the families because of crooked law enforcement!! Please don’t come to Canada!! We will continue to pray for the Avery and Halbach families! I was so impressed with Steven’s lawyers!!
I sat here tonight and watched the entire documentary. I can’t fathom how these “law enforcement” officials not only got away with this, but can look at their face in the mirror.
Wow, how has this continued on without repercussions to these jokes in office?
They have lost all public trust. They are the faces of all that is wrong with the law, and wither the law catches up with them or not, karma will.
I don’t know this family, or anything other than the Netflix documentary and news articles online. And all I have to say is I’m disguested. I wish the worst on all of those officials, and I hope justice is served while they can still feel the pain from it.
They all need to held accountable in the same manner they held Steven accountable for acts he didn’t commit. They are an example of what’s wrong with our country, constitution and society.
I hope those officials get hate mail, poop on their doors, mocked and badgered in public and humiliation until they die. I hope they go in a stressful manner.
Mae, certainly understand your position, even if it might be better to get all the information, rather than your blanket indictment of the people being based upon a single documentary. Not saying I disagree with your conclusion, just that knowing more is better.
Where I might differ is your inclusion of the Constitution in your disgust; I fail to see any of this as a constitutional failure. Clearly there was a breakdown when people charged with upholding fail; either inadvertently or with malicious intent. Really makes no difference to me about the intent. If that was Incompetency by “good people”, they need a new job that comes with a paper hat and closer supervision.
If hate mail, dog poop, and public humiliation is your version of justice in this case, or even just a karmic reckoning, I hope there is more room on your list of people who are ” the face of what’s wrong with society”.
I am ashamed. The legal system in the USA is so distorted. These poor people were totally screwed by the system. The police and prosecutors were pigs and cared absolutely nothing about justice. They wouldn’t know justice if it hit them in the face. I’ve have never been so touched by a documentary. I was close to tears for a big part of it. How can people do this to each other?
That’s all I know is I have a son in jail he has been in there for 10 months and he is innocent but for some reason he is not getting the proper Council he deserves. The public defenders hearing Green Bay seems like they side with the state and whatever else the state provides. I am his parent and I am on disability and I don’t have big bucks for a lawyer. But they don’t have any evidence whatsoever just statement from a child. Of course the mother has to I agree with this state to get her child back (any mother would) we have proof of his innocence on his phone messages. But still no justice for my son. No they postponed it till July and that’s all we want is a trial to prove his innocence. I think whoever is running the jail and your public defenders needs to lose their job. If they would get up and do their job my son would be home already.I think a lot of people should be in jail for ruining people’s lives just because they can. There is no justice in Wisconsin but they seem to let these drunk drivers go all the time and they’re still getting pulled over with a DUI I bet you they have enough money to get out of jail again. Pretty angry and upset with the states laws. Free my innocent son and find a real perverts out there
Is there anything that we can do to help Steven Avery and His nephew? The system is corrupt and there’s nothing us citizen can do? How stupid is the juror?
Cali,
From what I understand, the new appellate lawyer is pretty strong, has a great record with these kinds of cases; and that is because she only takes ones she can win.
We don’t “know” what she’s got to work with, but there are multiple implications that the new defensive attack on the conviction will involve a combination of what we saw in the documentary (denial of Due Process) and substantial evidence that someone else is a much more plausible suspect. It seems that the police developed tunnel
vision early on and dismissed alternative explanations (including some from
other law enforcement) in lieu of nailing Avery— strange parallel with the first time around.
The only thing that ever helps people who have been
wrongfully convicted post-judicial review (after the appeals) is solid science unavailable at the time or trial, combined with significant public pressure on
elected officials to correct the mistake. The only mechanisms by which he can be released is:
1. Executive relief — the Governor would have to grant a form of clemency (pardon or the less desirable commutation of the sentence) “in the interest of justice”. The current Gov. will be slow to act here because he was publicly supportive of Avery after the release from the first case, but ran from him as soon as the new charge popped up, publicly stating he would remain hands off;
2. File an Appeal through the state appellate court in Madison (which Avery filed himself without
assistance from an attorney or spell-check) alleging ineffective assistance of counsel, and a litany of inappropriate procedural events by the trial court
judge, the jury itself, and prosecutorial misconduct. These are phenomenally improbable based upon
past rulings, and at best would still only vacate the conviction, leaving him open to a retrial; should the county prosecutor choose to do so. In this situation,
retrial would be a circus of O.J. proportions and seems unlikely to happen, except for the fact that the county can hardly afford to have him cleared of
these charges, because they would be bankrupted by what would happen next.
3. Be granted a new trial (without the appeals court
vacating the conviction) based upon “new evidence”, but that has to come from the trial court. New trials themselves are pretty rare, and admission
of new evidence was unheard of until fairly recently, but remains a very high threshold to clear for a trial de novo.
Consider that the people making that decision have absolutely nothing to gain from that and a great deal to lose: The expense alone is the usual reason for denial, but here there are substantial possibilities
that the retrial would uncover some ugly things about the office of the prosecution and the sheriff. Further, anyone who knew, or should have known about any conspiracy to deny these guys of Due Process would open them to civil suits and criminal charges as well as federal prosecution.
This case has a unique distinction of also leaving (in
addition to police and prosecution) the defense (trial) attorney and his investigator open to disbarment and civil and criminal charges–and in my opinion a well-deserved slow and painful public death for abdicating the most important and fundamental responsibility of criminal proceedings in our legal
system.
I hope the newest lawyer (Kathleen Zellner) is the hot shot she appears to be, and that at a minimum these guys get Due Process. I remain agnostic about whether “he did it” (and from a legal perspective find it irrelevant at this point) but deeply committed to the fact that he was denied anything close to fairness.
So what can we do? Stay on top of the process, bring public pressure to make this a correct administration of justice–whatever that may
be.
Many of us with Christian and God-fearing morals, can clearly see there is SOMETHING not right and not adding up with the case against Steven Avery. I’m on the side of this opinion with those who see the reasonable doubt. Just like that one juror who was excused for a family emergency saw that it had to be someone else because the facts were not adding up, I too see that facts and leads to the case against Mr. Avery are off just enough to catch but not pinpoint. I wonder if the F.B.I. will actively become involved? Now that “Making a Murderer” aired, maybe they will become interested enough to go back from the beginning of all the accusations/evidence collections/interviews/etc. having the means to follow a lead all the way through and eliminate or bring it to a new hearing. Hope so, I don’t like to see innocence abused. As for Mr. Avery’s young nephew, I wish him justice. I’d like to go back and put a corner of that podium up the back end of that idiot accusing Brendan openly of being in a state of confusion with his “budding” sexual interests. REALLY, its not enough you just broke that boys life to shatters, you had to salt it down with the insult that he was curious about sex to become some kind of deviant???